You just beat me to bringing that up again!Steve remember we were discussing ferries from St.Cat/Hamilton to downtown...
This will be private, not TTC, and further still, marine law is not under Provincial regulation. If there was a clause as you describe, it would have to be challenged in a federal court. I don't think it would get that far.The TTC's non-compete clause should throw coldwater on that plan. Between the 66B, 145 and the planned Park Lawn GO Station; things are, or will soon be as such that living in HBS and getting downtown should be a cakewalk. Other areas have it far worse.
The TTC's non-compete clause should throw coldwater on that plan. Between the 66B, 145 and the planned Park Lawn GO Station; things are, or will soon be as such that living in HBS and getting downtown should be a cakewalk. Other areas have it far worse.
If water taxis can be regulated by the City, a ferry between two points in the City isn't a stretch to fall under s.395(1) of the COTA. That said, I'm having trouble imagining the Commission doing anything other than reach a 395(4) agreement and standing back to watch what happens.This will be private, not TTC, and further still, marine law is not under Provincial regulation. If there was a clause as you describe, it would have to be challenged in a federal court. I don't think it would get that far.
Plus at this point in time, for the TTC to follow a 'gentleman's agreement' with the Province would be like kissing your henchman.
Licensing and regulation are separate:If water taxis can be regulated by the City, a ferry between two points in the City isn't a stretch to fall under s.395(1) of the COTA. That said, I'm having trouble imagining the Commission doing anything other than reach a 395(4) agreement and standing back to watch what happens.
Toronto water taxi - WikipediaWater taxis are licensed like land based taxis, and are also regulated by boating regulations. ... All certifications are issued by Transport Canada, except for Industry Canada who issues the VHF radio license.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-small-vessels-faq-inspections-446.htmInformation for Passengers
What is a passenger vessel?
A passenger vessel is any vessel that carries at least one passenger. A passenger is generally anyone who pays for a trip on a vessel.
Does this include activities like sightseeing, water taxis, ferries, and harbour cruises?
Yes. It includes all vessels receiving payment from passengers.
Naturally for this service to materialize, we will need the support of several groups starting with the residents of Humber Bay. TOGI has been in detailed discussions with the local councillor (Mark Grimes) as well as the City of Toronto Parks department about our desire to provide our water borne transportation service. The response was straight forward in that, if enough support from the community exists and all of the environmental concerns were met, the City would be happy to assist us in establishing the very first Humber Bay/Yonge St. ferry service.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_River_ServicesLondon River Services Limited is a division of Transport for London (TfL), which manages passenger transport—leisure-oriented tourist services and commuter services—on the River Thames in London.
It does not own or operate any boats but licenses the services of operators.
The decision to revive London's river service network moved forward in 1997 with the launch of “Thames 2000”, a £21-million project (£38 million today) to regenerate the River Thames in time for the Millennium Celebrations and create new passenger transport services on the Thames. While the service is not as extensive as those of Hong Kong or Sydney, it has been growing: in 2007, more than 0.7 million commuters travelled by river on the Thames Clippers service, one of the numerous operators on the system; in 2013 the Thames Clippers service had grown to 3.3 million, as it had become more integrated into the tube and bus ticketing network; in 2014 their figure was 3.8 million; in 2015 it was forecasted that their ridership would increase to 4.3 million by 2016, supported by the addition of new Clipper boats. By 2018, there were 21 different operators carrying daily commuter, leisure, charter, or sightseeing passengers to various combinations of the 33 piers on the system.
What's wrong with a proposal of a ferry from HBS to Yonge Street? It could get people downtown in half the time, that is, if the TTC doesn't find a way (assuming this ferry idea actually happens and TTC owns it not the City), to short turn. No that just sound so ridiculous
Ferry service proposed between Humber Bay Shores and Yonge Street
BY NEWS STAFFPOSTED MAY 20, 2019 11:11 AM EDT LAST UPDATED MAY 20, 2019 AT 11:30 AM EDT
The proposed ferry route between Humber Bay Shores and the Yonge Street taxi terminal. FACEBOOK/Humber Bay Shores Discussion
A private water taxi company is floating the idea of bringing a ferry service to Humber Bay Shores that would take commuters from the area to downtown Toronto during rush hour.
The Otter Guy Inc. is holding a public meeting in order to judge public interest in the new route.
The ferry would run six trips per day between 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. and between 4:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. Monday to Friday from Humber Bay Shores to the Yonge Street taxi terminal. There would also be ferries on the weekend to provide service to the Toronto Islands.
The company said they have purchased an electric, 200-passenger high-speed catamaran that intends to address global warming, pollution and the transit issues in Humber Bay Shores.
President Alex Nosal said the boat will take four months to build, but they are waiting until they have full support from the city as the company would need a lease for the dock at Humber Bay.
Nosal adds they have been in contact with Councillor Mark Grimes and the Parks department and were told if sufficient support from the community exists, the city would be happy to assist in setting up the proposed service.
The town hall meeting is being held at the Polish Alliance hall at 2282 Lake Shore Blvd W. at 7 p.m. on May 30.
Toronto has worked in the past in an attempt to provide better transit service to rapidly growing area of Humber Bay Shores, including introducing a shuttle to the Mimico GO station last summer.
https://torontolife.com/city/life/toronto-water-taxi-guide/A who’s who of Toronto water taxis (Toronto Life)
BY CHRIS DART | AUGUST 26, 2016
The pickup: Queen’s Quay, just east of the ferry terminal
Cost: $10 per person
Operator: Alex Nosal
The sales pitch: “I grew up on the island, so I’ve always been around boats and the water. Each boat is named after an Otter. We have Otter Nonsense, Otter Space, Otter Limits, Otter Motive. We’re the only water taxi company that’s unionized. All our boats have deckhands. They can help people on and off the boat, and it’s an extra set of eyes. We want to establish a ferry service to Humber Bay, so that people can avoid driving or TTC.”
Nothing is wrong with it. It’s an excellent idea, albeit with pitfalls. What remains to be seen is whether demand will sustain it as a transit service.
Personally, I can’t imagine the City standing in its way, and even if TTC felt their interests were being harmed I suspect Council would overrule. The local councillor will bend heaven and earth to make this happen, as he is the most culpable figure when people ask how Humber Bay got so dense without having proper services built..... anything he can point to that he can take credit for as mitigation for that is very valuable. He may have just had the Park Lawn GO cancelled, and he has too many owies to Ford Nation to be able to protest loudly over that. And sorry, 66B/145 are just not proper transit for such a dense development.
The practical concerns I would have are a) winter b) last mile, especially at the Humber Bay end....the dock may be an unmarketable distance from the doorstep for many residents who drive or take TTC today. Will there be transfer privileges with TTC ? and c) will demand sustain a fairly hefty operating budget - the safety aspects of water transit are not cheap, and this will attract inspection. Are TPS/TFS on board with potential lifesaving scenarios outside the inner harbour? (And are insurers content if the city’s only fireboat is stationed downtown?)
Note that the service is being proposed as rush hour weekdays and weekends only. A waterfront ride to Humber Bay on weekends is a sure fire winner for walkers and cyclists. The boat will be available evenings for the charter trade. My theory is that the ferry propsal is just a tool to help Mr Otter finance the new boat that he has already purchased.... it doesn’t have to be sustainable on its own, it just has to provide incremental revenue for a boat that would otherwise be moored at commuting hours.
Also note that Mr Otter has his toe in the island ferry business. I seem to recall that the city ferries are in need of replacement. Maybe this guy sees a business opportunity if he can transition from small boat/taxi level haulage to big boat/big haul traffic to the islands. It’s a lot easier/cheaper to park at Humber Bay on weekends than to drive downtown to take the city ferry. So maybe there is a win-win here that could lead all the way to privatising the island ferry service to the existing taxi operators, with service to Humber Bay and maybe east to Scarborough. And think about how water service to a redeveloped Ontario Place might factor into that.
I’m a five minute bike ride from Humber Bay, and a ferry to downtown and the Island would be wonderful for recreational uses. I could see coming home from evening events too. So I’m all for it. But as an alternative to 66B? I still wonder about winter.
Would have been possible if Toronto Island was setup like Jean Drapeau park in Montreal.
But no, instead some privileged boaters and rich people get to have homes on what should be a public space.