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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 206 71.3%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.7%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    289
Hieberrr said:
I'm sorry, I'm kind of new to all of this. But if I am reading/understanding this correctly, the plan is to extend the Queens Quay streetcar to the east + have automated people mover from the current Jack Layton Ferry stop connect to Union?
Click to expand...

It was an option only. The preferred overall option is currently the expand the streetcar loop at Union because it connects better with the TTC streetcar network. See link.

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Jeff Morgan said:
The people mover is one of the two options being considered. The second is to make the changes necessary to the existing streetcar tunnel to allow for the increased traffic / volume. The two options go before the City in April to make their selection/decision.
Click to expand...
@Hieberr should read the March 2019 update at: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/8edd-AODA-Compliant-Slide-Deck_v3.pdf Though both an expansion of the streetcar loop and a people mover are discussed it is the streetcar that is the preferred choice from the consultants (and, I think, most of us on UT). This is what was recommended by the 2008 EA so it has taken us 10+ years to get back to where we were and there is still not money.
 
DSC said:
@Hieberr should read the March 2019 update at: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/8edd-AODA-Compliant-Slide-Deck_v3.pdf Though both an expansion of the streetcar loop and a people mover are discussed it is the streetcar that is the preferred choice from the consultants (and, I think, most of us on UT). This is what was recommended by the 2008 EA so it has taken us 10+ years to get back to where we were and there is still not money.
Click to expand...

Within those TEN years, the price tag went up and up and up. Should have started years ago, not deferred. But "deferring" is normal at city hall.
 
DSC said:
@Hieberr should read the March 2019 update at: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/8edd-AODA-Compliant-Slide-Deck_v3.pdf Though both an expansion of the streetcar loop and a people mover are discussed it is the streetcar that is the preferred choice from the consultants (and, I think, most of us on UT). This is what was recommended by the 2008 EA so it has taken us 10+ years to get back to where we were and there is still not money.
Click to expand...
Was there a previous phase when different ways of implementing the "APM" option were discussed and cable-pull became the comparator vs streetcar?
 
dowlingm said:
Was there a previous phase when different ways of implementing the "APM" option were discussed and cable-pull became the comparator vs streetcar?
Click to expand...
This was a 'bright idea' by the former CEO of Waterfront Toronto (Will Fleissig). It seemed to appear out of thin air and vanished as he did.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Maybe it's just new to me, but something that I haven't seen before is the proposed new connection at Queens Quay station, under the tracks south to Harbour Square.

View attachment 178318
Click to expand...

It is in the city presentation posted on here a few weeks ago - the WT DRP presentation is basically the same (hence "little you haven't seen before") other than cosmetic differences.

AoD
 
From the report on transit expansion to Exec. Ctte

Transit Expansion Program –Status Update

Segment 1The City and TTC are working on opportunities to improve priority for streetcar customersfrom the Humber Loop to Park Lawn Rd, in conjunction with the on-going Transportation Master Plan study for the area.

Segment 2The Exhibition Loop –Dufferin Gate Loop section areais on track to complete preliminary design and engineering in Q3 2019. Staff will report to City Council and TTC Board with an updated Class 3 cost estimate and a Level 3 schedulein Q4 2019. The initiation of the planning for the western portion of the Humber Bay Link from Dufferin St to the Queensway and Colborne Lodge Dr is currently in the initiation and developmentphase, and will proceed based on advancing the extension to Dufferin St.

Segment 3The UnionStation-Queens Quay Link project has completed initiation and development, including updated Class 4 cost estimates, and is seeking approval of the preferred technology option to proceed to preliminary design and engineering. The section of Queens Quay from Bay Street to Parliament Street has been included in the design and costing work for the UnionStation-Queens Quay Link.

Segment 4The Port Lands areais in various stages of planning and design, ranging from detailed design (Villiers Island area around Cherry St), to final stages of the Environmental Assessment process (Broadview Ave extension and LRT from Queen to Commissioners St, and Commissioners St LRT from Broadview Ave to Leslie St).

In respect of the Western Extension to Dufferin Gate:

This project is closely co-ordinated with other nearby projects.

This project:

Will minimise changes to the existing tracks at Exhibition Loop, which were renewed in 2016/2017;
Is co-ordinated with Metrolinx’s planned improvements to Exhibition GO Station;
Is co-ordinated with the City’s Dufferin Bridge replacement work;
Will include a renewal and upgrade of the existing TTC Dufferin Gate streetcar and bus loop; and
Will permit a future connection south of Dufferin Street to the Humber Bay Link, an additional westward streetcar connection that has been contemplated as part of the Waterfront Transit network.
 
"This report makes the following recommendations on key city building projects:
  • Advance preliminary design and engineering ("PDE") of the Streetcar Loop option for the Union Station-Queens Quay Link and East Bayfront LRT, an important component of the Waterfront Transit Network; and
  • Request Metrolinx to partner with the City to develop a plan to undertake PDE for two phases of the Eglinton East LRT: (i) an easterly extension of Line 5 (Eglinton Crosstown) from Kennedy Station to University of Toronto Scarborough ("UTSC"); and (ii) an extension to Malvern Centre."
 
Jeff Morgan said:
The people mover is one of the two options being considered. The second is to make the changes necessary to the existing streetcar tunnel to allow for the increased traffic / volume. The two options go before the City in April to make their selection/decision.
Click to expand...

For the people mover option I was wondering if they should consider a split-level streetcar connection. Eastbound cars running 6 feet lower than the People Mover. And westbound trains 6 feet higher. So a short incline either way (vs a long connection for eastbound trains).

They would not be on top of each other (still horizontally separated). Eastbound trains would have both doors open and allow people to go to the south side of Queens Quay. Westbound & People Mover would not have any underground connection to south side of QQ

This of course assumes that the Harbourfront trains would have doors on both sides of the train. Toronto needs to increase the size of the Fleet so new orders would have the second set of doors (i.e. no retrofits needed)
 
muller877 said:
For the people mover option I was wondering if they should consider a split-level streetcar connection. Eastbound cars running 6 feet lower than the People Mover. And westbound trains 6 feet higher. So a short incline either way (vs a long connection for eastbound trains).

They would not be on top of each other (still horizontally separated). Eastbound trains would have both doors open and allow people to go to the south side of Queens Quay. Westbound & People Mover would not have any underground connection to south side of QQ

This of course assumes that the Harbourfront trains would have doors on both sides of the train. Toronto needs to increase the size of the Fleet so new orders would have the second set of doors (i.e. no retrofits needed)
Click to expand...
The people mover option is dead
 
Northern Light said:
From the report on transit expansion to Exec. Ctte

Transit Expansion Program –Status Update

Segment 1The City and TTC are working on opportunities to improve priority for streetcar customersfrom the Humber Loop to Park Lawn Rd, in conjunction with the on-going Transportation Master Plan study for the area.

Segment 2The Exhibition Loop –Dufferin Gate Loop section areais on track to complete preliminary design and engineering in Q3 2019. Staff will report to City Council and TTC Board with an updated Class 3 cost estimate and a Level 3 schedulein Q4 2019. The initiation of the planning for the western portion of the Humber Bay Link from Dufferin St to the Queensway and Colborne Lodge Dr is currently in the initiation and developmentphase, and will proceed based on advancing the extension to Dufferin St.

Segment 3The UnionStation-Queens Quay Link project has completed initiation and development, including updated Class 4 cost estimates, and is seeking approval of the preferred technology option to proceed to preliminary design and engineering. The section of Queens Quay from Bay Street to Parliament Street has been included in the design and costing work for the UnionStation-Queens Quay Link.

Segment 4The Port Lands areais in various stages of planning and design, ranging from detailed design (Villiers Island area around Cherry St), to final stages of the Environmental Assessment process (Broadview Ave extension and LRT from Queen to Commissioners St, and Commissioners St LRT from Broadview Ave to Leslie St).

In respect of the Western Extension to Dufferin Gate:

This project is closely co-ordinated with other nearby projects.

This project:

Will minimise changes to the existing tracks at Exhibition Loop, which were renewed in 2016/2017;
Is co-ordinated with Metrolinx’s planned improvements to Exhibition GO Station;
Is co-ordinated with the City’s Dufferin Bridge replacement work;
Will include a renewal and upgrade of the existing TTC Dufferin Gate streetcar and bus loop; and
Will permit a future connection south of Dufferin Street to the Humber Bay Link, an additional westward streetcar connection that has been contemplated as part of the Waterfront Transit network.
Click to expand...

When will the Segment 1 happen? I certainly hope it's soon. The automobile gods can sometimes contest us 501L users along the Lakeshore at times.
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
When will the Segment 1 happen? I certainly hope it's soon. The automobile gods can sometimes contest us 501L users along the Lakeshore at times.
Click to expand...

I don't know the answer to that.

I would suggest that probably means not in the next couple of years; I suspect it will tie in to the Mr. Christie site redevelopment; but we shall see.
 
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