Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[ADRM]

From Layton's newsletter:

Liberty Village Transit Open House
Monday, March 19, 2018
6:30pm – 8:30pm
Liberty Grace Church – 25 Liberty Street

Dear Neighbours,

You are invited to join me at my upcoming Transit Open House to receive updates and learn more about a number of transit related projects happening in the Liberty Village neighbourhood.

City staff, Metrolinx, and TTC will be in attendance to provide updates and answer your questions about the following projects:

• the new Liberty Village SmartTrack station
• improvements to Exhibition GO Station
• the Waterfront Transit Reset, and
• Exhibition Streetcar loop extension to Dufferin Street.

If you have any questions or would like more information please contact Heather Leger in my office at 416-392-4108 or by email at heather.leger@toronto.ca.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Instead of "Long Branch" as the western terminal for the "Waterfront West LRT", it's the "Port Credit GO Station". See link (page 49).

New light rail transit corridor along the waterfront; links downtown Toronto and Port Credit.

• From Union Station in Toronto to Port Credit GO Station in Mississauga.
• Length: 22.3 km

No dates. So wishful thinking at the moment?

 

[44 North]

Instead of "Long Branch" as the western terminal for the "Waterfront West LRT", it's the "Port Credit GO Station". See link (page 49).

New light rail transit corridor along the waterfront; links downtown Toronto and Port Credit.

• From Union Station in Toronto to Port Credit GO Station in Mississauga.
• Length: 22.3 km

No dates. So wishful thinking at the moment?

Bah, this is why I put little faith in fantasy grand plans. 'Hey, that line looks good going there. Put it in. Should get people hopeful and continue to vote for the existing party'. Was fooled by McGuinty's election promise of MO2020, which became a carbon copy of Metrolinx's Big Move 1.0. And how many of those projects are still "in delivery" after ten years? Fully funded, shovel-ready, but not. Somehow. Then a decade later we extend the timeframe by a decade, add more projects, and the whole process continues.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Instead of "Long Branch" as the western terminal for the "Waterfront West LRT", it's the "Port Credit GO Station". See link (page 49).

New light rail transit corridor along the waterfront; links downtown Toronto and Port Credit.

• From Union Station in Toronto to Port Credit GO Station in Mississauga.
• Length: 22.3 km

No dates. So wishful thinking at the moment?

The garbage RTP has no bearing whatsoever on what gets funded and approved

 

[drum118]

Instead of "Long Branch" as the western terminal for the "Waterfront West LRT", it's the "Port Credit GO Station". See link (page 49).

New light rail transit corridor along the waterfront; links downtown Toronto and Port Credit.

• From Union Station in Toronto to Port Credit GO Station in Mississauga.
• Length: 22.3 km

No dates. So wishful thinking at the moment?

It will not be Port Credit GO Station, But further west at Mississauga Rd for West Village Port Credit (Imperial Oil Land) as per Mississauga Lakeshore Transportation Study. You got two different rail gauge to service Port Credit GO Station in a tunnel. with standard gauge being there first.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Through TTR. Most of the USRC is actually Metrolinx owned after it was sold in 2000. But if you follow the discussions and the documents linked in the ORCA thread, it does not seem that ownership is not that simple. May be broken up horizontally, may be startified, may be overlain with easements and other weird instruments.

Yes, as I said it is a very confused situation and it APPEARS that Metrolinx only owns 'surface rights' and, if the TTR website is to be believed, they do not own anything because the other rights were never transferred to them by CP and CN. A lawyer's dream!

The Feds should just get off their butts and expropriate the whole damn thing, instead of being binded by covenants from more than a hundred years ago.

AoD

I wonder if CN/CP were even aware that they [seemingly] retained the air rights after the USRC surface rights were sold to Metrolinx.

If the intent of the sale was for CN/CP to transfer complete ownership and rights, including the air rights, then I’d say that the courts can reasonably transfer those rights to Metrolinx (note: not a lawyer).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I wonder if CN/CP were even aware that they [seemingly] retained the air rights after the USRC surface rights were sold to Metrolinx.

If the intent of the sale was for CN/CP to transfer complete ownership and rights, including the air rights, then I’d say that the courts can reasonably transfer those rights to Metrolinx (note: not a lawyer).

Assuming CN/CP do indeed own the air rights for UNRC, what stake would they have in blocking the progression of Rail Deck Park? They don't move trains through the corridor anymore and can't use the corridor, so why would they care? Is it possible that they'd transfer the air rights to Metrolinx for a nominal amount of money?

 

[crs1026]

Assuming CN/CP do indeed own the air rights for UNRC, what stake would they have in blocking the progression of Rail Deck Park? They don't move trains through the corridor anymore and can't use the corridor, so why would they care? Is it possible that they'd transfer the air rights to Metrolinx for a nominal amount of money?

Nominal? No way. They would want full market value. Their shareholders would demand it.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Through TTR. Most of the USRC is actually Metrolinx owned after it was sold in 2000. But if you follow the discussions and the documents linked in the ORCA thread, it does not seem that ownership is not that simple. May be broken up horizontally, may be startified, may be overlain with easements and other weird instruments.

Which thread is ORCA?

 

[DSC]

I wonder if CN/CP were even aware that they [seemingly] retained the air rights after the USRC surface rights were sold to Metrolinx.

If the intent of the sale was for CN/CP to transfer complete ownership and rights, including the air rights, then I’d say that the courts can reasonably transfer those rights to Metrolinx (note: not a lawyer).

I am sure that the CN and CPR lawyers were well aware that the (valuable) air rights were not transferred. It is certainly possible that if the Metrolinx lawyers had wanted them they could have been (and maybe cheaply) but now the railways see that they have value they will certainly try to realise it - which is what they should do for their shareholders.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Which thread is ORCA?

This is ORCA. Some discussion also gets split off to the Rail Deck Park thread.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

Does the new money from the Fed and Provence mean this project might move forward sooner?

 

[DSC]

Does the new money from the Fed and Provence mean this project might move forward sooner?

Yes, it MIGHT. But there are far more transit 'promises' than money available!

 

[Jeff Morgan]

Yes, it MIGHT. But there are far more transit 'promises' than money available!

Wouldn't it be interesting to see an unbiased chart that shows known cost (both construction and operations) along with expected ridership? Does anybody know what the expected ridership of WT?

 

[Leo_Chan]

Wouldn't it be interesting to see an unbiased chart that shows known cost (both construction and operations) along with expected ridership? Does anybody know what the expected ridership of WT?

Are you saying you want ALL the facts for all transit projects in the GTA? That would be extremely politically impracticable as the projects that get votes will be orders of magnitude less impact full than those that don't get votes but need to happen.

I would assume that you would first sort from Most Expensive to Least Expensive, then Most Riders to Least Riders, and then Lowest Price per Rider to Highest Price per Rider.

And we all know which one would be on the top of all categories.