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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 205 71.2%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 13 4.5%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.8%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 22 7.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.9%
  • Total voters
    288
Leo_Chan said:
Are you saying you want ALL the facts for all transit projects in the GTA? That would be extremely politically impracticable as the projects that get votes will be orders of magnitude less impact full than those that don't get votes but need to happen.

I would assume that you would first sort from Most Expensive to Least Expensive, then Most Riders to Least Riders, and then Lowest Price per Rider to Highest Price per Rider.

And we all know which one would be on the top of all categories.
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Indeed, the real problem is that many of the 'statistics' are better described as guesses and we all remember how the anticipated usage of the wretched Scarborough Stubway suddenly increased when John Tory decided he needed to support it. Where transit and other public services are put is a political decision and the supporting documents are usually very open to differing views!
 
Jeff Morgan said:
Wouldn't it be interesting to see an unbiased chart that shows known cost (both construction and operations) along with expected ridership? Does anybody know what the expected ridership of WT?
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You're hitting on the way transit should be planned, rather than the manner in which it is often planned.

There are lots of ways the city can muck up the allocation of the federal-provincial funding, and we don't yet know the specific ways in which it will, which is why it's difficult to predict whether WT transit timing is affected by this week's announcement.
 
ADRM said:
You're hitting on the way transit should be planned, rather than the manner in which it is often planned.

There are lots of ways the city can muck up the allocation of the federal-provincial funding, and we don't yet know the specific ways in which it will, which is why it's difficult to predict whether WT transit timing is affected by this week's announcement.
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One can wish!
 
It thought the waterfront LRT planning was reset how could there be shovels in the ground soon?

They should just build the relief line all the way to Queen and Roncesvalles and build a transit hub there with streetcar / GO / DRL
 
GrayLake said:
It thought the waterfront LRT planning was reset how could there be shovels in the ground soon?

They should just build the relief line all the way to Queen and Roncesvalles and build a transit hub there with streetcar / GO / DRL
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The Waterfront transit reset studying has moved on very well and their last report made several major recommendations. The only (admittedly a big 'only") uncertainty is how they will deal with Queens Quay to Union - a regular streetcar or a cable car of some sort (automated funicular technology). See: https://www.toronto.ca/city-governm...studies-initiatives/waterfront-transit-reset/ and http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2018.EX30.1 It may not be 'shovel ready' next week but it IS getting to point where shovels could be prepared.

See also: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sit...eeting1_presentation_june_28_2017-eng_web.pdf
 
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GrayLake said:
It thought the waterfront LRT planning was reset how could there be shovels in the ground soon?

They should just build the relief line all the way to Queen and Roncesvalles and build a transit hub there with streetcar / GO / DRL
Click to expand...

most of the lines pre-work is done. Just need to fix some things and they're ready to go. I really hope they finalize a plan shortly and start the work soon.
 
Until we know what going to happen for Union, the rebuilding of the eastern section of QQ like the Western section, work can't start for the section between York and Freeland. What going to happen will not be known until this fall or early 2019. Rest of the eastern section could see work started in mid 2019 from Freeland to Parliament.

TTC is supposed to be past 30% design ready for the section between Dufferin and the EX loop, with work starting in 2019 subject to what Metrolinx going to do for GO Ex station and tunnel. Then, the Dufferin St new bridge has to be push up and what is that going to do for the Gardiner traffic and the rail corridor??

2021 could be the earliest that the extension west of Dufferin could start and what will that do for the new bridges over the rail corridor timetable?

2020 could see Lake Shore rebuilt from Humber Loop to Park Lawn for a wider road with an ROW for TTC.

2020-2025 could see a new GO station at Park Lawn subject to the master plan for the site.

Anything going east of Parliament is beyond 2025, since there is no master plan for that area yet.

The new Cherry St bridge is 2020 at the earliest and how it is that tie in with the leveling the land for the Mouth of the Don due 2025.

Then, need to do an EA for Cherry St under the Rail Corridor to determined what going to happen there for the extension of Cherry St ROW as well Rail corridor expansion. EA would be either fall this year or early 2019. Construction would not start until 2020 and delaying adding new tracks/bridge to the corridor.

Need to do an EA for QQ and Bathurst St and that could take place in 2019 with construction starting in 2020-2021.
 
drum118 said:
The new Cherry St bridge is 2020 at the earliest and how it is that tie in with the leveling the land for the Mouth of the Don due 2025.

Then, need to do an EA for Cherry St under the Rail Corridor to determined what going to happen there for the extension of Cherry St ROW as well Rail corridor expansion. EA would be either fall this year or early 2019. Construction would not start until 2020 and delaying adding new tracks/bridge to the corridor.
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The Union Station Rail Corridor (USRC) East Enhancements Project Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) is underway at the moment (started in April) and this project involves expanding all the bridges from Cherry to Yonge. One option is to simply widen the bridges, another is to rebuild them completely, to make better pedestrian and cycling routes. They say they are taking into account the need to bring the Cherry Street ROW under (to the south side of) the berm.

See also: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sit...eeting1_presentation_june_28_2017-eng_web.pdf
 
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Today at the Transportation Futures transit debate for the Ontario election (I was in attendance), PC candidate Rod Phillips said that the PCs would esentially continue all current transit plans, minus Waterfront Transit. He stated that this project "was not a priority" for the PCs. TVO should have the debate up online at some point, but he is wrong, this project is sorely needed.
 
alexanderglista said:
Today at the Transportation Futures transit debate for the Ontario election (I was in attendance), PC candidate Rod Phillips said that the PCs would esentially continue all current transit plans, minus Waterfront Transit. He stated that this project "was not a priority" for the PCs. TVO should have the debate up online at some point, but he is wrong, this project is sorely needed.
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TVOntario will broadcast the recorded debate scheduled on Tuesday, May 15, at 8 PM and at 11 PM, on The Agenda with Steve Paikin Ontario Election 2018: The Transportation Debate.
 
alexanderglista said:
Today at the Transportation Futures transit debate for the Ontario election (I was in attendance), PC candidate Rod Phillips said that the PCs would esentially continue all current transit plans, minus Waterfront Transit. He stated that this project "was not a priority" for the PCs. TVO should have the debate up online at some point, but he is wrong, this project is sorely needed.
Click to expand...

I am absolutely livid
 
Worth pointing that this mainly means that provincial funding under PC won't come to waterfront transit.

The city could still fund it ourselves, and the Feds can pitch in as well.

On the bright side, maybe this means that provincial contributions to the Relief Line will be higher, and the city gets a kick in the ass to take on funding Waterfront transit.
 
WislaHD said:
Worth pointing that this mainly means that provincial funding under PC won't come to waterfront transit.

The city could still fund it ourselves, and the Feds can pitch in as well.

On the bright side, maybe this means that provincial contributions to the Relief Line will be higher, and the city gets a kick in the ass to take on funding Waterfront transit.
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Reality is the city won't be doing the Union LRT upgrades by themselves unless the new ward divisions make a much bigger impact than I anticipate.

It should be possible to do something useful with King (as ROW), Lower Jarvis/Parliament (or Cherry?), and Queens Quay. Loop on the west at Charlotte Street. 8 cars on a 50 minute round-trip would have pretty decent starting capacity.

Pushing under the railway track is tricky but we have plans to do that at Cherry anyway.


Waterfront west seems much harder to solve in a useful manner. I expect a short neighbourhood circulation route connecting to GO is probably the best solution if GO gets frequencies up and builds a station is a sane location.
 
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