Urban Sky
Senior Member
Inbound crews in Toronto (locomotive engineers and on-train staff) are the same as outbound crews; therefore, if you want to make a turn-around in less than 8 hours, you would have to get completely new crews flown into Toronto - and this can easily be flight tickets for two dozen members of staff, especially in summer. Also, twice as many cleaners could clean the train quicker, but at a price.@Urban Sky - interesting that the 2019 changes have virtually eliminated westbound delays ex Toronto. I guess the eastbound delays were cascading equipment issues such that a trainset couldn't be spotted back from TMC maintenance/servicing in time?
However, you are right that it is no coincidence that the problems of late trains #2 delaying the departure of train #1 have been close to eliminated since the two timetable changes, as what used to be 94.5 hours (between departure of train #2 and departure of train #1) is now 27-51 hours more:
Note: originally posted as post #4,775
Please feel free to locate the figures in this archive of studies and correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, the assumption was always that the rail corridor could not be shared as Edmonton-Calgary still forms an integral part of CP's national operations and this is the key difference between Edmonton-Calgary and Quebec-Montreal: the main concern of CN and CP will always be to maintain control on their infrastructure and operations, whereas a short line will prioritise minimising its operating costs...^ Quebec - Montreal is roughly the same distance as Edmonton- Calgary, and that HxR project was costed at $1.5B some years ago. So yeah, I tend to think the price for this could be more than $1.1B.
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Given that I believe that I have a reasonably good idea of what data has been provided to E&Y, I'm more in the camp with those who find certain figures mentioned in the G&M article rather surprising, as I had the same reaction when reading it. But this is what you need to understand about this article: VIA has forwarded the data and studies requested by E&Y, but some of these files are highly technical documents prepared by engineering firms which are far more specialised in rail infrastructure projects than an accounting firm (and especially a mainstream - as in: generalist - newspaper, which has never seen the original studies themselves) could ever be. Therefore, I would take most figures with a grain of salt, maybe less those figures which match with those which have already been published previously, but certainly those which appear as counter-intuitive or even puzzling to the interested and reasonably well-informed reader...The G&M article has a lot more detail. Was fantastic. Thanks Paul.
Underspending would be foolish on alignments with many curves, as a later upgrade in design speed will require expensive realignments, which will void a significant proportion of the previous investment. Everywhere else, overspending is foolish, as any increase in the price tag will negatively effect the project's financial attractiveness to potential investors. As we have established multiple times, the minimum scheduled travel time between Ottawa and Montreal was exactly 1h35 in 2002-2005, which means that little (if any) investments are required to increase what the travel speeds the existing lines are capable of. Whatever bottlenecks might cause HFR trains frequent delays east of De Beaujeu can still be fixed by building additional track capacity after the opening of HFR and securing the necessary funds will be infinitely easier once HFR has been proven a success...Agreed. VIA is really dropping the ball here. This is the one segment that would benefit several markets and create a commuter market. Underspending here is foolish.
They really need institutional investors to stop them from shooting themselves in the foot.
You seem to have missed that the center piece of any HxR proposal I am aware of has been to merge the Montreal-Ottawa, Montreal-Toronto and Ottawa-Toronto ("end-to-end") markets into one single rail service, which allows to exploit the economies of scale, which the VIA Fast study (a fascinating and highly recommended read, by the way!) correctly summarises as follows:Yeah, it was a bit of a cheap shot, but really..... Ottawa can’t find that much money?
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As you have noted, there is probably a standalone Ottawa-Montreal market that could be extracted, irrespective of the other segments of the route.
I get that. But I'm questioning the number. This is crazy. They are saying they need to spend more on rolling stock than the recapitalization of the entire Corridor stock today. That's obviously more than just serving Kingston.
You are assuming that the second batch (the "option") is identical with the base procurement, whereas in fact, the two are entirely different beasts, as clearly indicated in VIA's RFQ documents:It's not the fact that they need more trains that is strange to me. It's the size of the procurement. It's bigger than the entire existing corridor fleet. And that comes along with a 25% improve in productivity with HFR.
Even assuming they spend something nuts like half a billion on the fleet based in Kingston, that's still a massive amount to bolster the HFR fleet.
VIA Rail said:(5) VIA Rail’s current Corridor services are provided on non-electrified infrastructure.
However, over the thirty year life cycle of the trainsets, VIA Rail intends to reduce its use of fossil fuels. Therefore, VIA Rail is working on a long term plan to build its own dedicated infrastructure for passenger service in the Corridor that could be electrified to reduce the use of fossil fuels and allow operation at up
to 125 mph. This long term plan has been presented by VIA Rail to its shareholder, the Government of Canada, and has yet to be approved. It should be noted that portions of the new routes on this infrastructure would remain non-electrified. Communities located in the current Corridor would also continue to be served by VIA Rail on the current non-electrified infrastructure.
(6) Options to acquire additional trainsets will be principally predicated on the Government of Canada's decision regarding VIA Rail's long term plan to build its own dedicated infrastructure. In the event that VIA Rail is given the authority to build its own infrastructure in the Corridor but such infrastructure is not electrified, then additional diesel only trainsets will be required to enable increased service frequencies. If VIA Rail is given the authority to build its own infrastructure and electrification is required, then the additional trainsets must be capable of both diesel and electric operation (dual-mode) at up to 125 mph, with seamless transition, and bi-directional operation. If the decision on VIA Rail's long term plan and the timeframe to implement this decision is not yet established at the time of the order for
the additional trainsets, then the delivery of the additional trainsets could be deferred until the decision and schedule is available.
The need for bi-mode operations (if operating diesel trains through the Mont-Royal tunnel) has already been established in the Ecotrain study (Deliverable 13, p.S-3) ...
... as well as that such hybrid trainsets would be substantially more expensive than single-mode (i.e. diesel or electric) trainsets (Deliverable 6 [Part 2 of 2], p.45):
Our internal QA processes have clearly been lacking when someone decided to share this map with a media outlet, as also evidenced by the spelling errors in the station names of Smiths Falls or L’Ancienne-Lorette and of course the abundance of red spell-checking lines in the map's legend...No, thats some mysterious street called Eglington ?
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