VIA Rail

[Urban Sky]

Other than High Speed in North Am, and former HST now relegated to local in the UK: (The Class 43)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)

The hybrid replacements Class 802, are high speed on electric (140 mph), and 110 mph on diesel, the max speed now possible on Cdn rails:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_802

There's the one you work for, VIA Rail.

Here's an excerpt from page 48 of the 2017-2021 corporate plan indicating push-pull ops from Toronto-Ottawa.
View attachment 165871
And here is a link to a video from 3 weeks back showing push-pull ops on train 73 which came from Ottawa earlier in the day as train 41 from Ottawa.

Really? Its quite popular. Heres an example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125

Having studied in Leeds for 3 years, I'm well aware of the InterCity 125 trains and having worked at VIA Rail's Corporate Strategy department already for an even longer period, I'm currently helping with the creation of the 2019-2023 Corporate Plan, while the 2018-2022 Corporate Plan awaits approval from Transport Canada.

I was talking about locomotive-hauled intercity trains, which generally operate with a locomotive at both ends, not VIA adding a second locomotive in winter or Railjet adding a second locomotive if the cab-car breaks down. For me, the InterCity 125 is a fixed trainset, like the ICE 1 and I see this perspective confirmed by the use of the word "power car" rather than "locomotive" in the quote provided by Robmauser, as there is a subtle difference between both terms:

In rail transport, the expression power car may refer to either of two distinct types of rail vehicle:

• a vehicle that propels, and commonly also controls, a passenger train or tram, often as the lead vehicle;[1][2][3]
• a vehicle equipped with machinery for supplying heat or electrical power to other parts of a train.[2][3]

The first of these types of vehicle is closely related to the locomotive. What differentiates the locomotive and the first type of power car is their construction or use. A locomotive can be physically separated from its train and does nothing but provide propulsion and control (and heat or electricity for passenger trains). On the other hand, a power car of the first type is frequently an integral part of its train, and some of the car's interior space may be used for carrying passengers or cargo.

In any case, such an arrangement is anything but "quite popular" for the locomotive-hauled (i.e. non-DMU/EMU/powercar) intercity trains I was referring to...

 

[steveintoronto]

Anyone have any more details on the 'Renaissance' derailment @Urban Sky refers to?

Having studied in Leeds for 3 years, I'm well aware of the InterCity 125 trains and having worked at VIA Rail's Corporate Strategy department already for an even longer period, I'm currently helping with the creation of the 2019-2023 Corporate Plan, while the 2018-2022 Corporate Plan awaits approval from Transport Canada.

I was talking about locomotive-hauled intercity trains, which generally operate with a locomotive at both ends, not VIA adding a second locomotive in winter or Railjet adding a second locomotive if the cab-car breaks down. For me, the InterCity 125 is a fixed trainset, like the ICE 1 and I see this perspective confirmed by the use of the word "power car" rather than "locomotive" in the quote provided by Robmauser, as there is a subtle difference between both terms:

The Class 43 power cars have an interesting parallel to the 'cabbages' that Amtrak uses/used. http://www.railroad.net/the-cabbageamtraks-recycled-f40.html

In 1987, as electrification of the East Coast Main Line was under way, British Rail realised that the new Mark 4 carriages for the Class 89 and Class 91 (electric) locomotives were not going to be finished in time for the introduction of electric services on the East Coast Main Line so, in late 1987, a total of eight Eastern Region power cars (Numbers 43013/014/065/067/068/080/084/123) conversions (on 43014/123) were carried out at the Derby Engineering Development Unit, whilst the other six (43013/065/067/068/080/084) were converted by the diesel repair shop at Stratford to have the lower valancing (nose cowling) removed and buffers fitted.

After being fitted with buffers, these power cars began work as surrogate DVTs (Control Cabs) to work with the Class 91s and 89. The locomotives, working with conventional Mk3 stock, worked on the line between 1987 and 1991, when the last Class 91 locomotives entered service. As well as buffers being fitted to these powercars, special remote control equipment was also added to the locomotives so they could be controlled by the locomotive at the front. Once these locomotives left DVT duties, the remote equipment was removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST)

Unlike the 'cabbages' the Class 43's retained their propulsion 'innards' and returned to diesel service. One wonders if VIA will turn any of her F40s into 'cabbages' if extra locos are ordered beyond the ones for fleet renewal to allow push-pull with just one loco and a 'cabbage' at the other end? The P42s still have life left in them, perhaps an upgrade and refit, but the F40s appear to be reaching their end as locos, but paired with P42s the other end, still very useful...and perhaps allow the return of the baggage car on more off-corridor runs?

 

[smallspy]

Thank you for this suggestion, I will keep this in mind next time VIA reviews the Canadian's schedule...

Not to be snarky, but....

What about the numerous suggestions that have already been made to VIA to stop the Canadian at Richmond Hill GO station?

If you have a chance, I suggest taking the Sudbury - White River train along CP line. It's a milk run but the train stops at hunt camps, rivers and small communities that are completely isolated or only accessible by a very bumpy logging road. When I took it this summer, I met people taking a canoe to the Spanish river to travel south to Highway 17 and regular hunt camp groups from the GTA (they all drive to Sudbury). They stay in cabins close to the railway and the rail crews are known to blow the horn loudly if they know a cabin is occupied. A 'friendly' hello I guess.

Few luxuries, but if you want to truly want to disconnect, I suggest such a trip!

Having done it 3 times, I highly recommend this trip as well. It is a very, very laid back and enjoyable experience, with friendly crews and passengers. Do pack some food and drink with you, however.

It is in the fall when the heavier HEP2 stock is being pulled.

Nitpick - the weights of the LRC cars and HEP2 cars are within a tonne or two of each other - with the HEP2s being the lighter of the two.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Urban Sky]

Anyone have any more details on the 'Renaissance' derailment @Urban Sky refers to?

https://www.thestar.com/amp/halifax...ecting-more-than-100-via-rail-passengers.html (it was a horrible weekend for the Ocean, together with the severely injured locomotive engineer in Truro)

Not to be snarky, but....

What about the numerous suggestions that have already been made to VIA to stop the Canadian at Richmond Hill GO station?

I don't recall any such demands and I have read all the questions from the last three Annual Meetings, but it would be certainly worthwhile to discuss these ideas with Metrolinx...

Having done it 3 times, I highly recommend this trip as well. It is a very, very laid back and enjoyable experience, with friendly crews and passengers. Do pack some food and drink with you, however.

I only took the Montreal-Jonquière train from the remote services (now called "Adventure Routes"), but they are definitely a unique rail travel experience!

 

[micheal_can]

https://www.thestar.com/amp/halifax...ecting-more-than-100-via-rail-passengers.html (it was a horrible weekend for the Ocean, together with the severely injured locomotive engineer in Truro)

Looks like a messed up switch to me. How else can you keep some cars on one track and others on a different track?

 

[steveintoronto]

Looks like a messed up switch to me. How else can you keep some cars on one track and others on a different track?

Thanks to @Urban Sky for the link. It gave me the tags to search on-line, and there's a litany of articles showing. I wondered about that too Michael, although sometimes a broken axle or wheel can also cause this.

What's going to be interesting is how the 'drawbar' (I presume it to be this for the coach unit-train) reacted as per Urban and Dowling's comment on the Talgo accident. I suspect the 'unit coupled' method might be up for some discussion being a newer method in North-Am for passenger, albeit probably unavoidable in practical terms for high-performance 'trainsets'. (Even in partial use like just the coach set attached to discrete locos).

The Nightstars were such a good looking coach set, it's unfortunate so many things have gone wrong for them.

See @ 22 secs:

Note the angle of the rear bogie coach 2. That might hold a clue as to what happened, albeit that angle could also be a result of the derailment too.

I wonder where the drawbars are attached to?

May not be 'drawbars' at all, but 'tightlock' couplers.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mark-4-coach-couplers.154127/

Renaissance rolling stock types
7 types of Renaissance equipment are present on the VIA network today. All are currently certified for 125mph. Obvious differences when compared to American cars include: narrow body, due to constraints in the British loading gauge (which they were originally planned to operate in), and a shorter length (about 75ft). They retain their Euro-style couplers, so baggage/transition cars must be used in order to connect a locomotive to the front, or to connect standard Canadian stock to the back. Transition cars are fitted with an Euro-style coupler on one end and a standard (Type F) tightlock knuckle on another end.

http://canadian-rail.wikia.com/wiki/VIA_Rail_Canada_"Renaissance"_program

Interesting, still no definitive reference...

 

[robmausser]

Looks like a messed up switch to me. How else can you keep some cars on one track and others on a different track?

They were MULTI TRACK DRIFTING!

 

[nfitz]

What about the numerous suggestions that have already been made to VIA to stop the Canadian at Richmond Hill GO station?

Richmond Hill GO? at Major MacKenzie?

Wouldn't Langstaff GO on Highway 7 at Yonge be the obvious choice if there were a stop? Much better transit and highway connections. And presumably a future subway station if everyone keeps their promises.

 

[JasonParis]

Yes, the Richmond Hill/Langstaff stop would make more sense, but probably not required until the Yonge North is up and running.

 

[littlewill1166]

Nitpick - the weights of the LRC cars and HEP2 cars are within a tonne or two of each other - with the HEP2s being the lighter of the two.

Actually, not according to this
https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian Rail_no503_2004.pdf
and this,
https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/the-lrcs

According to those weights, the LRC is 23,000 pounds lighter and that's before its tilting mechanism was removed which saved an additional 2 tonnes. I'm not sure how the HEP2 could be lighter given that it's physically larger, and it's constructed out of stainless steel which is heavier than aluminium.

 

[smallspy]

Richmond Hill GO? at Major MacKenzie?

Wouldn't Langstaff GO on Highway 7 at Yonge be the obvious choice if there were a stop? Much better transit and highway connections. And presumably a future subway station if everyone keeps their promises.

My apologies - Langstaff was the station that I'd meant, not Richmond Hill.

I don't recall any such demands and I have read all the questions from the last three Annual Meetings, but it would be certainly worthwhile to discuss these ideas with Metrolinx...

The suggestions had not been posed to the Annual Meetings, but rather suggestions made via various other channels, official and not - the comments and suggestions form on the website, written letters, and through on-board services.

Actually, not according to this
https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian Rail_no503_2004.pdf
and this,
https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/the-lrcs

According to those weights, the LRC is 23,000 pounds lighter and that's before its tilting mechanism was removed which saved an additional 2 tonnes. I'm not sure how the HEP2 could be lighter given that it's physically larger, and it's constructed out of stainless steel which is heavier than aluminium.

The production LRC cars were a little over a tonne heavier than the Amtrak ones. The savings in the banking system was about 2500 pounds, or a little over a tonne. Their current weight is about 44 tonnes per car.

The HEP2 cars lost a very considerable amount of weight with their conversion to short-distance coaches and installation of Head-End Power (and loss of several miles of steam piping and radiators), and now weigh about 43 tonnes.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Urban Sky]

The suggestions had not been posed to the Annual Meetings, but rather suggestions made via various other channels, official and not - the comments and suggestions form on the website, written letters, and through on-board services.

Adding station stops depends on the approval of the respective infrastructure and station owners (in this case: CN and Metrolinx) and one factor which might affect their willingness to approve such a request could be that the line is double-tracked while the station covers only one track and that accepting such a stop reduces the number of possible routings and potentially so at times during which Metrolinx operates their own trains and of which it might already plan to run more and at more times of the day in the future. In any case: feel free to contact me via PM or LinkedIn for my work email address and I will happily forward (and follow up on) any request you (or anyone else in this forum) might have...

 

[lenaitch]

lol...You don't have to have a lot of money to think at the end of a gruelling trip: "Screw roughing it in a tent, I'll spend $100 bucks to sleep all night in civility with modern comforts, and do the gnarly stuff on the road in daylight."

Absolutely. I did some trips with a friend who got into riding later in life and we used his bush hammocks. Not entirely uncomfortable but I decided it was not my cup o' tea (I also wasn't a fan of his tripping style). He admitted that he's too cheap to pay to sleep. I figure I've spent long enough on this planet to earn single malt whisky, real maple syrup and, when on the the road, a bed and shower.

I'm also not aware of any locomotive-hauled trains anywhere in the world (other than Brightline, obviously) which has locomotives at both ends...

The Canadian stopped at Newmarket, Barrie and Orillia until the Newmarket Subdivision was abandonned by CN north of Barrie at the end of 1996:
View attachment 165852
Source: VIA timetable (effective 1996-04-28)

Interestingly, the Northlander (Toronto-North Bay-Cochrane-Kapuskasing) operated via the Bala Sub until it was cut in 1990 with a stop in Richmond Hill (dropped in 1986) and Beaverton:
View attachment 165860
Source: VIA timetable (effective 1985-10-27)

Finally, concerning the stops served by the Canadian and the Super Continental prior to their consolidation in October 1978:
View attachment 165861View attachment 165862
Source: VIA timetable (effective 1978-06-01)

Thanks for that. I should have remembered Mactier when it ran on CP from when I lived up that way. It was also a crew change.

 

[robmausser]

Actually, not according to this
https://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian Rail_no503_2004.pdf
and this,
https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/the-lrcs

According to those weights, the LRC is 23,000 pounds lighter and that's before its tilting mechanism was removed which saved an additional 2 tonnes. I'm not sure how the HEP2 could be lighter given that it's physically larger, and it's constructed out of stainless steel which is heavier than aluminium.

From that Amtrak article:

Although supposed to enter service by early 1979, the trains’ delivery was delayed by a strike at the Bombardier manufacturing plant.

Oh Bombardier...

 

[Garuda]

Yes, the Richmond Hill/Langstaff stop would make more sense, but probably not required until the Yonge North is up and running.

Langstaff does seem like a more logical stop than Bloomington. I just feel that there be at least one more stop in the GTA.

If... and whenever the Northlander returns, Longstaff should also be a stop.