U of T: New Varsity Stadium (Diamond + Schmitt)

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

We are used to seeing youth doing that there. We expect to see youth doing that there. We want to see youth doing that there. We need to see youth doing that there.

I agree, except in the point of fact that nobody sees anyone doing anything; no-one ever has. What you see is that dickensian slab of red brick, unless you were to peek through the peripheries that afforded slivers of a view.

Maybe the new design can make amends. If those active young students could be put, not behind a wall, but inside a very large terrarium...?

 

[unimaginative2]

Slivers of view? The entire Devonshire frontage is now completely exposed, and they don't appear at further inspection to be planning any change to that arrangement.

 

[building babel]

And, the rendering suggests, the wall along Bloor will soon be a thing of the past too.

"Please sir, can we have our ball back?"

 

[tudararms]

"They could raise the entire stadium on stilts, but why should U of T pay an enormous sum for that just to please a few armchair critics?"

...well I'm not looking for anybody to please "me", but aren't we all 'armchair critics'? I mean, isn't that the purpose of this forum? Why be so sore about somebody's contribution of ideas? Clearly you must have some vested interest in, or personal attachment to all of this. I don't. This is just a central downtown site with wasted opportunity, imho.

As per the render illustrated there is clearly no space for development along Bloor. Not as familiar with the immediate area as some of the students, UOT staff or University lobbyists here obviously are, it does appear that the location of the stadium could be shifted southward allowing for more appropriate development along Bloor, Babal's homoerotic fantasies notwithstanding.

 

[building babel]

My homoerotic fantasies can fit into just about any development scheme - a crowded shopping mall, where bodies are pressed closely together, for instance. But above all else, I like how the tradition of this site is being maintained, and the fact that the predictable mixed use thing has been avoided. I don't know if this development represents a thoughtful avoidance of crass commercialization or simply an unthinking continuation of the status quo of land use. But the end result is just hunky-dory with me.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Clearly you must have some vested interest in, or personal attachment to all of this."

Well, I'm paying for [a small] part of it. You're just complaining that it's not world class enough.

"This is just a central downtown site with wasted opportunity, imho."

If this is a wasted site, so is Osgoode Hall, so is the firefighters' memorial at College/University, so is the Manufacturers' Life lawn, so is the York Club, etc.

"Why be so sore about somebody's contribution of ideas?"

What ideas? No, the playing field cannot be shifted...there is no room for anything along Bloor other than a wall. Trinity owns the land to the south - I've said this about 8 times already.

Appropriate development? The York Club has an enormous brick wall, the Observatory has a big iron fence, OISE is a concrete fortress, etc. You're so sure that Mink Mile must be pushed west to preserve your precious luxurious streetscape, but why can't the institutional areas expand instead? That's what's already going on with RCM, ROM, Woodsworth...and I bet most would agree that it's the institutions that make this stretch of Bloor luxurious, not the Colonnade and Winners.

 

[unimaginative2]

...and I can tell you that after the university's attempts to ram the previous proposal down Trinity's throat, including turning tree-lined Devonshire into a driveway to a loading dock, Trin will be in no rush to sell its land so U of T can make a few bucks from a new Starbucks on Bloor.

There's nothing wrong with a little wide-open space once in a while.

 

[dashingdan]

Devonshire is such a cute little road, lined with historic student residences and trees and its just lovely to walk down. It would have been a huge mistake to have closed it down or whatever the University wanted to do with it. At least Trinity stood up to that ill-fated proposal. Although I still think they COULD have given some land on the south side of the site, but I can totally understand why they'd want to hang onto their green space.

 

[building babel]

We'll get a nice view south from Bloor, across open space, to Diamond + Schmitt's new athletic building, with a glimpse - just across Devonshire - of Massey College, creating an improved entry point to the Forbidden City of the U of T campus.

 

[tudararms]

"Well, I'm paying for [a small] part of it. You're just complaining that it's not world class enough."

...Where do you find the term 'world class' in my postings?

"If this is a wasted site, so is Osgoode Hall, so is the firefighters' memorial at College/University, so is the Manufacturers' Life lawn, so is the York Club, etc."

...I disagree. I think these sites are all quite fine. Good ideas though! I think a monument or a garden along Bloor would be lovely, and how nice for students.

"You're so sure that Mink Mile must be pushed west to preserve your precious luxurious streetscape..."

...I don't think this streetscape is 'precious' to me, but sure bulldoze the gym field. I guess I'm not as attached to school games as you.

"but why can't the institutional areas expand instead? That's what's already going on with RCM, ROM, Woodsworth...and I bet most would agree that it's the institutions that make this stretch of Bloor luxurious, not the Colonnade and Winners."

...I'm not sure exactly where I opposed this? Is the sports field an institution now, then? I didn't realize that Varsity stadium was part of Toronto's 'Cultural Renaissance'. Perhaps I've underestimated it. Anyhow, thanks for your philosophical musing on what constitutes 'taste'. I feel enlightened now.

"My homoerotic fantasies can fit into just about any development scheme - a crowded shopping mall, where bodies are pressed closely together, for instance. But above all else, I like how the tradition of this site is being maintained, and the fact that the predictable mixed use thing has been avoided. I don't know if this development represents a thoughtful avoidance of crass commercialization or simply an unthinking continuation of the status quo of land use. But the end result is just hunky-dory with me"

Although ultimately I'd rather see it go, I do think you make an interesting point here Babel.

 

[unimaginative2]

I don't think this streetscape is 'precious' to me, but sure bulldoze the gym field. I guess I'm not as attached to school games as you.

I'm certainly not interested in collegiate sports and I don't think scarberiankhatru is either. I was probably the most strident opponent of the original stadium proposal. I simply feel that there's nothing wrong with maintaining a little area in a city for recreational activity. Not everything has to be developed for private use. More importantly, I'm defending the university's right (and duty) to use its land holdings for students. One field with bleachers and a track for a campus with 50,000 students is certainly quite reasonable. If the land is built upon, it should be for classrooms and residences, not more shopping for 905ers in their Land Rovers.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Is the sports field an institution now, then?"

A university facility that's been there for a century? You're kidding, right?

"I feel enlightened now."

You admitted you're not particularly familiar with the area and you refused to acknowledge that a mixed use development - that anything other than a playing field behind a wall - is simply not going to materialize. You were so concerned about squandering the development potential of this site and the ability of Yorkville to organically grow westward, and now you'd be happy with a parkette just to spite those who think a modest stadium isn't the end of the world...yeah, you seem enlightened.

"...I don't think this streetscape is 'precious' to me"
yet you said:
"that maintains the streetwall of what is one of the city's most luxurious and prominent thoroughfares would have been more appropriate."

Will your garden have a tall hedge along Bloor to maintain the streetwall? So if you do care about more than the impact on Bloor itself, do you oppose the York Club?

I've said that the site plan could be improved and I'm not 100% satisfied with it, but you still haven't divulged why exactly you are opposed to a stadium along Bloor other than a simple hatred of sports. You're willing to turn the site into a park so I guess you don't care how intensely the land is used and you don't oppose the York Club across the street (or any of the other non mixed-use enclosed properties all around there) even though it's just an exclusive institution walled off from everything else around it.

 

[adma]

and I bet most would agree that it's the institutions that make this stretch of Bloor luxurious, not the Colonnade and Winners.

The Colonnade *is* luxurious. The only thing de-luxurizing it is the 80s+ glitzy renos; but otherwise, it still holds its own, some 45 yrs later...

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

^ What de-luxuriates it is frigging Margaret Addison hall out the back, is what.

Can one buy a de-luxuriating cream? At Shoppers' or somewhere?

I was probably the most strident opponent of the original stadium proposal.

Which one, the big 2002 proposal? Were you involved on campus then, unimaginative?

 

[nassauone]

...I disagree. I think these sites are all quite fine. Good ideas though! I think a monument or a garden along Bloor would be lovely, and how nice for students.

Seriously? A monument? Garden? Hey, I'm all for green space and history but really. I think both would add less to the current student environment then a sports field.