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TTC: Streetcar Network

W. K. Lis

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This past weekend, the 506 CARLTON streetcar was "diverted" to the KEELE Station due to city construction.

From link.

506 Carlton - Temporary route change during City of Toronto construction
Streetcar restrictions December 8 to 9, 2019

10 p.m. December 8 to 4 a.m. December 9, 2019

506 Carlton streetcars will turn back at Bathurst Station.

506 Carlton replacement buses will operate in both directions via Spadina Crescent, Spadina Avenue, College Street, Dundas Street West, Howard Park Avenue, Parkside Drive, Keele Station.

306 Carlton replacement buses will operate in both directions via Spadina Crescent, Spadina Avenue, College Street, Dundas Street West, Dundas West Station.
1575923297414.png


It shows what is missing with 506 streetcar. Currently, the 506 streetcar loops at the High Park Loop at Howard Park Avenue & Parkside Drive. The 506 bus looped at the KEELE station. Other times, the bus would loop at the HIGH PARK station. The 506 CARLTON streetcar should be also looping at KEELE station, however at the current time the KEELE station is too small to handle additon vehicles. Even the 189 STOCKYARDS bus does not enter the KEELE station because it is too small. The KEELE station needs to be expanded to handle more vehicles, including the 506 CARLTON streetcar.
 

Steve X

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This past weekend, the 506 CARLTON streetcar was "diverted" to the KEELE Station due to city construction.

From link.

506 Carlton - Temporary route change during City of Toronto construction
Streetcar restrictions December 8 to 9, 2019



View attachment 219315

It shows what is missing with 506 streetcar. Currently, the 506 streetcar loops at the High Park Loop at Howard Park Avenue & Parkside Drive. The 506 bus looped at the KEELE station. Other times, the bus would loop at the HIGH PARK station. The 506 CARLTON streetcar should be also looping at KEELE station, however at the current time the KEELE station is too small to handle additon vehicles. Even the 189 STOCKYARDS bus does not enter the KEELE station because it is too small. The KEELE station needs to be expanded to handle more vehicles, including the 506 CARLTON streetcar.
I highly doubt there would be any ridership even if the 506 tracks were extended to Keele Station. Buses loop there on this past weekend just to give drivers a place to take a break.
 
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DSC

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Dream on! Let's deal with getting the current priorities done first - like the Waterfront expansions. - east and west.
Steve Munro has a new post today listing all (?) the route suggestions the TTC has received and among them is this one. Their answer is:
This is not in the City's Official Plan. (Also, not mentioned in the report, is that space for another route is not available at Keele Station and its geometry is such that adding a streetcar route would be difficult.)
 

W. K. Lis

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From Steve Munro's website, at this link.



A proposed route network was shown in the workshops, but it is not in the final report.​

The changes include:​
  • Route 501A would operate between Neville Loop and Sunnyside Loop.
  • Route 501B would operate between Long Branch Loop and a new Riverside Loop to be built on the land now occupied by a parking lot on Broadview north of Queen. This land is owned by the TTC.
  • The consolidation of routes 502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Road is permanent.
  • Route 503 would operate between Bingham Loop and Dufferin Loop.
  • Route 504B would operate between Broadview Station and Humber Loop, later to a proposed Park Lawn loop.
Looks like the 503 will have evening and weekend service.
 

dowlingm

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An extended 506 would provide a (slow) outlet during subway outages between Keele and Ossington. That said, my recollection is that TTC is against new network additions in mixed traffic, and the terrain is not suited to road widening over at least some of the distance between Howard Park and Bloor.
 

Streety McCarface

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From Steve Munro's website, at this link.



A proposed route network was shown in the workshops, but it is not in the final report.​

The changes include:​
  • Route 501A would operate between Neville Loop and Sunnyside Loop.
  • Route 501B would operate between Long Branch Loop and a new Riverside Loop to be built on the land now occupied by a parking lot on Broadview north of Queen. This land is owned by the TTC.
  • The consolidation of routes 502 Downtowner and 503 Kingston Road is permanent.
  • Route 503 would operate between Bingham Loop and Dufferin Loop.
  • Route 504B would operate between Broadview Station and Humber Loop, later to a proposed Park Lawn loop.
Looks like the 503 will have evening and weekend service.
They really need to rethink this numbering scheme. I get letters if one terminus differs, but if both termini differ, they should be signed as different routes.
504A -> 514
504B -> 504
501A -> 501
501B -> 507 (since 511 is taken, and it follows somewhat closely to the historical 507 route).

Interestingly, there's a lack of the 508. I wonder if it'll be dying again when the 504B is introduced.
 

W. K. Lis

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Where will the streetcar stops be located at The Queensway, Queen Street West, Roncesvalles Avenue, and King Street West intersection?

Currently, the 501 westbound stops on Queen Street West, at the northeast corner. The 501 eastbound stops at The Queensway, at the southwest corner. The 504A westbound stops on Roncesvalles Avenue, the northeast corner. The 504A eastbound stops on Roncesvalles Avenue, at the northwest corner.

Where would the 501A & 501B & 504A stop, going westbound on The Queensway? Where would the 501A & 501B stop, going eastbound on Queen Street West? Where would the 504A & 504B stop, going eastbound on King Street West?

The following is the January, 2019 intersection plan from link.

1576018116437.png
 

Towered

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Steve Munro has a new post today listing all (?) the route suggestions the TTC has received and among them is this one. Their answer is:
This is not in the City's Official Plan. (Also, not mentioned in the report, is that space for another route is not available at Keele Station and its geometry is such that adding a streetcar route would be difficult.)
Always lame excuses. There's a frigging gas station right next to the subway station that could easily be expropriated to expand its footprint.
 

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Streety McCarface

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Extending the 505 to Coxwell seems logical. It far enough east, and there are already sections of track on Coxwell.

For many years, the plan was to extend the 512 all the way to Kipling station. Why is the talk now of only going to Jane station?
If they get the 505 to Coxwell, I don't see why they can't replace the 22 with a streetcar line.
 

drum118

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Extending the 505 to Coxwell seems logical. It far enough east, and there are already sections of track on Coxwell.

For many years, the plan was to extend the 512 all the way to Kipling station. Why is the talk now of only going to Jane station?
The EA schedule for 2010 was to take the line to Scarlett Rd, but was put on the shelf.

Can't see it been taken to Jane as there is no place to build a loop like Scarlett Rd.

Will not see the line going to Kipling in anyone life time. If and when, it will have to run in Mix Traffic for most of the route.

I had to laugh when I saw the comments "NOT IN THE CITY OFFICIAL PLAN" showing TTC can't think outside the box. Not that hard to get a line(s) added to the Official Plan. The Official Plan is supposed to be updated every 5 years.

Taking 505 east of Broadview will require "ALL" on street parking remove and only a single lane of traffic in each direction with no left turn lanes.

See nothing wrong converting 22 bus to streetcar other than ridership.
 

drum118

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Where will the streetcar stops be located at The Queensway, Queen Street West, Roncesvalles Avenue, and King Street West intersection?

Currently, the 501 westbound stops on Queen Street West, at the northeast corner. The 501 eastbound stops at The Queensway, at the southwest corner. The 504A westbound stops on Roncesvalles Avenue, the northeast corner. The 504A eastbound stops on Roncesvalles Avenue, at the northwest corner.

Where would the 501A & 501B & 504A stop, going westbound on The Queensway? Where would the 501A & 501B stop, going eastbound on Queen Street West? Where would the 504A & 504B stop, going eastbound on King Street West?

The following is the January, 2019 intersection plan from link.

View attachment 219543
Stop remove for King/Queen on the south side and will see bump out platforms on Roncesvalles just north of the intersection. You see bit of the bump out on Roncesvalles today, but will rebuilt for the full length of the car as a true bump out platform for both direction. It shows up in another section for the plan work.

Queen St was to see bump out platforms on the east side of the intersection for both direction, but plan show only for the eastbound. Westbound will remain as is and a mistake.
 

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