BMO
Senior Member
I am in complete agreement with you. I just don't think we can definitively quantify the benefits (for or against) of a line that hasn't even been studied.
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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)
- Thread starter LAz
- Start date
I am in complete agreement with you. I just don't think we can definitively quantify the benefits (for or against) of a line that hasn't even been studied.
11th
Senior Member
It's fine to prioritize, but at least have it set into a plan. So when the right time arrives, it gets built as planned, and not as an another version which leads to further studies/delays/waste.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
If the right time is there, it won't be something that need to be put into a plan 50 years in advance in order to justify it - and besides you can't build "as planned" with that much lead time - context changes, EA expires, etc. That's a waste.
AoD
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11th
Senior Member
Not sure where that 50 years number comes from. Just like you said, a lot can change in those years, so why bother planning using current projections at all if that's the case?
Our city is only going to get denser (barring any severe catastrophe). Those lines/extensions will be needed eventually. If they are built now, sure, call that a waste, but I don't see how having those be the goals to build towards is a "waste" - when you know they will at worst be "good to have"s for the overall rapid transit network.
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
This study commissioned by the city a few years ago says that it would cost around $1.3 billion in 2011 dollars. That's obviously subject to inflation but 2.3 billion is a stretch.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Just throwing a number out there, besides - the city has been getting denser since Day 1, but subway lines didn't make sense in all corridors for however long the city has existed (even now). The goal to build only make sense if the broader plans, and the actual trend supports it - not the other way around. I mean by all means study to see if it is worth it - but actually putting it in a plan almost denotes a commitment, and I would be hesitant to do it unless and until there is justifying evidence.
AoD
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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I still think they will cave when Brown gets in.
Cobra
Senior Member
I think where people fight over subway is more about priorities vs building them at all.
People no longer want to see a Sheppard line or STC extension being built over more pressing priorities and I get it 100%. DRL should be 1st and foremost and good if we can build other lines at the same time...which we should have been doing the entire time. But in the end, all the lines are needed, we're growing fast and our subway system needs relief and have to stop relying on just 2 lines
People no longer want to see a Sheppard line or STC extension being built over more pressing priorities and I get it 100%. DRL should be 1st and foremost and good if we can build other lines at the same time...which we should have been doing the entire time. But in the end, all the lines are needed, we're growing fast and our subway system needs relief and have to stop relying on just 2 lines
UD2
Active Member
People who lives in down town toronto wants to see the DRL short built.
People who lives in northern Scarborough wants Sheppard East and DRL long.
DRL, as good as it maybe, doesn't do anything if you live at Sheppard and Kennedy and must travel eastwards.
So let's not generalize for all of Toronto over personal preferences. Because I will guarantee you that the 4 ridings in the vicinity of Sheppard East will all be voting for the party that promises the Sheppard subway over the one who is pushing the DRL to Pape.
And with the way that provincial politics are playing out, those 4 ridings will become pretty important come the next election. Given that Toronto downtown have a pretty much zero chance of going blue, the conservatives have nothing to lose in redirecting funds from the DRL to fund Sheppard East. Scarborough may be the difference for a majority government.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
By funding the Sheppard Subway extension over the Relief Line, not only would that decision be negatively impacting the millions of users who will have to deal with an even more crowded Yonge Line, but it would also be denying the subway extension to York Region.
UD2
Active Member
Given that the York Region subway wouldn't be built until at least DRL short has been completed, that prospect is at least 2 election cycles away, maybe even 3.
Unfortunately, and this is sad, campaign platforms mostly focus on what they can deliver in the short term.
Cobra
Senior Member
I think we might see subway lines being build/planned at the same time in the next decade. That Federal Infrastructure program where the Feds covers 50% of all public transit shovel ready projects is a huge opportunity we can't afford to miss.
I suspect DRL long is being pushed to be shovel ready so it would get the big discount. Same for Eglinton East and West extensions along with the Waterfront LRT Reset being a priority for the city. Scarborough Extension is still under study so they can't submit it yet. Does a EA of Sheppard extensions exists? If yes, it would be eligible as well. With the city finally giving itself the means to invest in public transit with the proposed tolls, it's totally plausible to see multiple transit projects being undertook in Toronto in the next decade.
Quite frankly, we'd be stupid not to push all those lines to beneficiate from that program because I'm pretty sure that after 2026, the formula will change.
I suspect DRL long is being pushed to be shovel ready so it would get the big discount. Same for Eglinton East and West extensions along with the Waterfront LRT Reset being a priority for the city. Scarborough Extension is still under study so they can't submit it yet. Does a EA of Sheppard extensions exists? If yes, it would be eligible as well. With the city finally giving itself the means to invest in public transit with the proposed tolls, it's totally plausible to see multiple transit projects being undertook in Toronto in the next decade.
Quite frankly, we'd be stupid not to push all those lines to beneficiate from that program because I'm pretty sure that after 2026, the formula will change.
Cobra
Senior Member
Cobra
Senior Member
We're more likely to see a "package deal" than one line over the other. If there's 1 election where the Liberals needs to hold all of Toronto's seats, it's this one. Especially with the rest of the province furious over Hydro bills. DRL Long + Scarborough Subway + Sheppard is a costly but who's counting when you're up for re-election?
The province put $150 million towards studying DRL long. We can see where their heads are at.
I live downtown and I want DRL long built. I rarely go to the Danforth or Science Centre but I'm stuck at Yonge and Bloor often when the station is overcrowded or backed up. The only solution to this is DRL long. I'd say most downtowners think the same.
I live downtown and I want DRL long built. I rarely go to the Danforth or Science Centre but I'm stuck at Yonge and Bloor often when the station is overcrowded or backed up. The only solution to this is DRL long. I'd say most downtowners think the same.