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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

Rainforest said:
The City Council will not pay for Sheppard subway, at least not in the next 15 years or so. The majority of councillors will feel that the BD subway extension is a good enough deal for Scarborough.

Thus, if Brown's Tories want to put the Sheppard subway on the table to win those 4 ridings along its route, they will have to fund it entirely with the provincial money. As I understand, the Federal infrastructure money will not be available for projects that have no municipal contribution.

I doubt that Tories will do that, given their inclination to cut both taxes and deficits, and the competing demand for transit funding from smaller cities where their electoral prospects are better, anyway. They might lose more support outside 416 if they give too much money to Toronto at the expense of other municipalities, and that loss might offset the benefit of getting those 4 Scarborough ridings.

My forecast: no Sheppard subway anytime soon, no matter who wins the next provincial election. On the other hand, Yonge North extension might get a boost if Tories win, and it might overtake DRL despite the fact that DRL should be first from the rational technical standpoint.
Click to expand...

Maybe they can make a compromise: Build the RL up to Sheppard, but have it veer eastward toward Vic Park and the Consumers Rd area. One doesn't have to be right or left to see that there's a large business area and growth potential, and that capturing riders from the NE could really boost the business case for the RL. Two birds with one stone.
 
44 North said:
Maybe they can make a compromise: Build the RL up to Sheppard, but have it veer eastward toward Vic Park and the Consumers Rd area. One doesn't have to be right or left to see that there's a large business area and growth potential, and that capturing riders from the NE could really boost the business case for the RL. Two birds with one stone.
Click to expand...

Though if you do that, you might as well just extend Sheppard to Vic Park instead. Or conversely, connect Sheppard to RL in the short term (if that is doable).

AoD
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So many people will be pissed if goes to just Victoria Park. Build the whole thing, do the LRT, I just don't care.
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Exactly. The lack of action pisses off people even more in general than just coming up with the money for the project and getting shovels in the ground.

If one subway is prohibitively expensive and can't be built because of said fact than arguably none of them can. It'll cost $1 billion/km of tunnel by the time anything gets done at the rate we're going. But there'll always be whiners crying "why is my own neighbourhood not getting a new subway, let's deny other areas' theirs", I guess.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So many people will be pissed if goes to just Victoria Park. Build the whole thing, do the LRT, I just don't care.
Click to expand...

That would never happen, Its mind boggling to be honest. Just run the subway thru Agincourt to STC and finish the loop or build the LRT loop as planned as long the SSE then gets connecting to Sheppard.

Hopkins123 said:
Exactly. The lack of action pisses off people even more in general than just coming up with the money for the project and getting shovels in the ground.

If one subway is prohibitively expensive and can't be built because of said fact than arguably none of them can. It'll cost $1 billion/km of tunnel by the time anything gets done at the rate we're going. But there'll always be whiners crying "why is my own neighbourhood not getting a new subway, let's deny other areas' theirs", I guess.
Click to expand...

That's why we need to design and fund a well connect network and not pick winners and losers. The subway loop around SCC makes complete sense in addition to the DRL obviously. LRT and BRT feeding everywhere else. Time to get moving and start funding. Most of Scarborough is a choked off transit desert and needs both better connectivity to downtown and a local network and the Yonge line needs relief. The entire network is a priority
 
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OneCity said:
That's why we need to design and fund a well connect network and not pick winners and losers. The subway loop around SCC makes complete sense in addition to the DRL obviously. LRT and BRT feeding everywhere else. Time to get moving and start funding
Click to expand...

You just picked winners and losers.

AoD
 
Hopkins123 said:
Exactly. The lack of action pisses off people even more in general than just coming up with the money for the project and getting shovels in the ground.

If one subway is prohibitively expensive and can't be built because of said fact than arguably none of them can. It'll cost $1 billion/km of tunnel by the time anything gets done at the rate we're going. But there'll always be whiners crying "why is my own neighbourhood not getting a new subway, let's deny other areas' theirs", I guess.
Click to expand...
AlvinofDiaspar said:
You just picked winners and losers.

AoD
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Mildly at best, as this plan is much more inclusive for the City as a whole and I advocate to start building all these lines ASAP so we are not left with large pockets left out.

Its about intelligent connectivity to the Growth areas. Connecting Scarborough Center to the main infrastructure of the City is a very reasonable design based on the current network. Stopping the Sheppard subway at the Scarborough border would be spitting on the face of our most neglected Borough. Saying that im ok with the LRT "as is" but we need to connect the SSE up to Sheppard
 
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Rainforest said:
The City Council will not pay for Sheppard subway, at least not in the next 15 years or so. The majority of councillors will feel that the BD subway extension is a good enough deal for Scarborough.

Thus, if Brown's Tories want to put the Sheppard subway on the table to win those 4 ridings along its route, they will have to fund it entirely with the provincial money. As I understand, the Federal infrastructure money will not be available for projects that have no municipal contribution.

I doubt that Tories will do that, given their inclination to cut both taxes and deficits, and the competing demand for transit funding from smaller cities where their electoral prospects are better, anyway. They might lose more support outside 416 if they give too much money to Toronto at the expense of other municipalities, and that loss might offset the benefit of getting those 4 Scarborough ridings.

My forecast: no Sheppard subway anytime soon, no matter who wins the next provincial election. On the other hand, Yonge North extension might get a boost if Tories win, and it might overtake DRL despite the fact that DRL should be first from the rational technical standpoint.
Click to expand...

If the Tories give the city council an option of funding for Sheppard or nothing, you bet the council will cave. I have no reason to see a conservative government funding a downtown Toronto subway.

Maybe they'll Yonge north to hwy 7, but it will likely all happen before the DRL short unless the liberals stay in power.
 
Sheppard West Subway cost now $3B.

https://twitter.com/jpags/status/826588513227440128
It took 10 hours, but Pasternak has raised the so-called North York Relief Line. "I realize this project is not cheap." Estimates $3B
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It seems that there is no will for any project to find the most cost effective solution. No benefit is given to prioritizing those projects that have been optimized. This is the biggest impediment to subway (and transit) construction in Toronto.
 
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