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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

I still think they should turn the Sheppard LRT into a BRT. With the $1 billion allocated, use some of that to continue widening the lanes from Pharmacy to Markham Rd, and then bring in those new Arctic long buses (will take care of the high loads).

Next, use the savings to turn the Scarborough RT line into a subway (stay on the same route, not build on McCowan). Only difference is:

- Instead of Ellesmere station, go underground a bit to Kennedy and Progress and call it Kennedy Commons Station; there is a big commercial plaza and lots of apartments around this area that this stop can serve.

- Instead of McCowan station, move it a bit further east and call it Progress station - serve the condo and commerical office building area.

- Continue to build a station near Centennial College near Markham Rd and Progress; you have the college and lots of apartments here.

- Finally last stop is Markham Rd and Sheppard.
 
nhui06 said:
Next, use the savings to turn the Scarborough RT line into a subway (stay on the same route, not build on McCowan).
Click to expand...

The SRT in its current alignment cannot be turned into a subway. Some of the turns are too tight for the current subway cars, all the stations would need to be rebuilt to fit subway trains and the most important point of all, the tail tracks at Kennedy Station are pointing towards Eglinton and McCowan. To turn the subway tracks to the alignment of the SRT would be stupid expensive.

The only alignment that is feasible is this one:

scarborough-lrt-subway-map-options.jpg
 
JoeParez said:
The SRT in its current alignment cannot be turned into a subway. Some of the turns are too tight for the current subway cars, all the stations would need to be rebuilt to fit subway trains and the most important point of all, the tail tracks at Kennedy Station are pointing towards Eglinton and McCowan. To turn the subway tracks to the alignment of the SRT would be stupid expensive.

The only alignment that is feasible is this one:

scarborough-lrt-subway-map-options.jpg
Click to expand...

Both Eglinton LRT and Scarborough LRT are to the East of the Markham GO corridor. Thus, they could be connected in option 2. I could probably live with option 1, but it seems more expensive even than a connected and grade-separated ECLRT/SRT.

Eventually, the subway, which has tail tracks under the rail corridor, could be extended to Kingston Road. This option would have a more reasonable station spacing than option 1.
 
I really see nothing to not like about Option 1. Lawrence East moves a few blocks east, some useless stations get eliminated, and STC finally gets its subway. Win-win-win.
 
I would much prefer a grade separation of Eglinton over a subway replacement. You lose service to centennial college with the subway, and having the SRT replacement through running to the YUS line you still allow for a single transfer to downtown which seems to be the biggest complaint with the current SRT service.
 
innsertnamehere said:
I would much prefer a grade separation of Eglinton over a subway replacement. You lose service to centennial college with the subway, and having the SRT replacement through running to the YUS line you still allow for a single transfer to downtown which seems to be the biggest complaint with the current SRT service.
Click to expand...

Given the degree to which the SRT replacement is set in stone, I would also argue that grade-separating Eglinton is also the more likely of the two options to happen, although neither seems particularly likely at this point. However, we will go through 1 mayoral election and at least 1 provincial election before any construction work actually begins on Eglinton east of Don Mills, so things may change.

But the fact is that when Metrolinx ran the grade-separated numbers for the SLRT+ECLRT combo, the ridership on Eglinton East more than doubled. That alone should tell you that the currently proposed setup isn't ideal for a lot of riders. The subway to STC option by contrast saw only a marginal increase in ridership compared with the SLRT option. If you're looking for the greatest service improvement for the most number of people for the least amount of money, grade-separating Eglinton East is it.

Under the current proposed LRT setup, SLRT riders aren't transferring to B-D because it's convenient, they're transferring to B-D instead of the ECLRT because B-D is a marginally less pain in the ass. It's choosing between two far from ideal options.
 
M II A II R II K said:
[video=youtube;6pa6eXErmmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pa6eXErmmw[/video]
Click to expand...

Loved this!!!!

My gf and I happened to do the exact same thing during the winter. It was 10:30 and I was taking her home and she asked if I wanted to go to "The Purple Line". So we hopped on a southbound train at St. Andrew and took the trip to Sheppard-Yonge. Transferred to an eastbound train, stopping a every station. At every station but Yonge and Don Mills, we were the only ones to get off. We made a few remarks about how few people there were, marvelled at how much wider the tunnels were and eventually made our way back downtown.

That was only the third trip I took on the line in half a decade. And I'm someone who frequently travels Downsview - Finch, Kipling - Kennedy.

Fun times. :rolleyes:
 
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gweed123 said:
But the fact is that when Metrolinx ran the grade-separated numbers for the SLRT+ECLRT combo, the ridership on Eglinton East more than doubled. That alone should tell you that the currently proposed setup isn't ideal for a lot of riders. The subway to STC option by contrast saw only a marginal increase in ridership compared with the SLRT option. If you're looking for the greatest service improvement for the most number of people for the least amount of money, grade-separating Eglinton East is it.
Click to expand...

There is a flaw in this logic. For the grade-separated SLRT+ECLRT option, you look at the SLRT+ECLRT numbers only and do not account for the impact on Danforth subway. Meanwhile, if those new SLRT+ECLRT riders simply shift from Danforth to ECLRT, then the overall number of new riders for the system may be no greater than for the Danforth extension option.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Except that it isn't crosstown travel, and you'd run up to the very same transfer issue unless your destination so happen to fall onto Spadina line. I mean, just how much time would such a scheme save, in comparison to a Eglinton like arrangement with Sheppard Subway to LRT conversion and at/above grade expansion at both ends?

AoD
Click to expand...

It would be nice to poll the existing riders, giving them 3 options:

1) Extend the subway to Agincourt, and build LRT or BRT east of it.
2) Convert the subway to LRT and build a continuous LRT line, but then the existing subway will have to be closed for 4-6 months for the conversion.
3) Leave the existing subway as is, and build LRT east of Don Mills, with a single-platform transfer.

I imagine that the majority of riders will prefer Option 1. But if Option 1 is too expensive, they will prefer Option 3 since it is less disruptive than Option 2.
 
Or have a Kennedy transfer on the corridor for express services to Union and ditch the subway altogether. Even if it's only available on rush hour.
 
Why would you want to ditch the existing subway? Not everyone travels during the rush hours. Not everyone goes to Union, and not everyone transfers at Kennedy.

Minor bus routes lose money, especially off-peak. Should we ditch them as well?
 
Rainforest said:
It would be nice to poll the existing riders, giving them 3 options:

1) Extend the subway to Agincourt, and build LRT or BRT east of it.
2) Convert the subway to LRT and build a continuous LRT line, but then the existing subway will have to be closed for 4-6 months for the conversion.
3) Leave the existing subway as is, and build LRT east of Don Mills, with a single-platform transfer.

I imagine that the majority of riders will prefer Option 1. But if Option 1 is too expensive, they will prefer Option 3 since it is less disruptive than Option 2.
Click to expand...

For the allocated $1B, I do not think option 1 is feasible.

Maybe they should:
- Extend Sheppard East Subway to Vic Park (the current 404 and Sheppard area is just awful in terms of traffic, so this will help relieve that area), then they BRT the rest of the way (widen Sheppard all they way to Markham Rd).

- Use the savings to build the B-D subway extension East to Sheppard. I like the McCowan-Lawrence and STC stops, but I think they should end the line at Markham Rd and Sheppard, NOT McCowan. There is a much higher need for a stop on Markham Rd (near Malvern and Centennial College), then at McCowan Rd (not much there really).
 
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