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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

sunnyraytoronto

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There was meant to be a mid block station at glencairn. It was scraped when the line was built. http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5105.shtml

In the process of designing a new subway line or extention, they discuss potential stops such as they did with Yonge extention north of Eglinton to Finch and most of these midpoint stops (Glencarin, Yonge Blvd - Glen Echo, Empress - North York Centre) never see the light of day again since the forcast for low ridership and lack of intersecting arterial road. These midway stops generally don't go beyond simple talk, there's usually never any planning, design or engineering work on these stations,... except,.... and as you can see from that article,... "This extension to the North Yonge extension would feature one station at Finch Avenue, despite lobbying from North York that a second station be constructed at Park Home Avenue (the Empress station referred to before, and the site of the proposed North York Civic Centre). Although a level section was designed into the line at this point, where a station could be added, the TTC would refuse the request to build this station until the mid 1980s, when construction began on North York Centre station." In addition, at that point the tunnel was also built so that subway platforms could be placed there later on. When North York City Centre (2 office towers, hotel, library, retail-office podium, etc,..) got built, North York City Centre station (aka at Empress / ParkHome) got built at developer's cost.

North York Centre subway station is the busiest subway station in Toronto without a direct bus or streetcar connection; ridership is based only on local walk-in from the area offices and condo towers. This area have changed greatly from the 1960s when the Yonge subway extention was proposed to mid-1980s (when North York Centre subway station was added) when area was already undergoing urban intensification being championed by Mel Lastman. (Sadly, the most famous politician from Yonge-Blythwood/Glencarin and Yonge-YongeBlvd/GlenEcho area was flip-flopping Karen Stintz who's political career was always guided by her own self interest at the cost of her local constituents.)

Also, if you compare the built-form of Yonge-Blythwood/Glencarin and Yonge-YongeBlvd/GlenEcho area from 1960s when these midpoint subway stops were discussed to today,... 99% of the buildings and houses that were there in 1960s are still there today! Same density, same everything,... only major change at these areas are new SportingLife store,... and GlenEcho North Toronto stop became a Loblaws,... oh, and more front lawns paved over for car parking spaces! So this is probably one of the few times the TTC did something right,... by not putting subway station or provision for one at these locations.

Besides North York Centre (Empress/ParkHome) Willowdale Avenue on the Sheppard Stubway line is the only other potential station that can be added to an existing subway line that I can think of off the top of my head. (Anyone know of any other?) It was considered during planning for Sheppard Stubway line but rejected due to some community opposition, low ridership prediction and shoe-string budget due to Mike Harris cuts. But provisions where built on the Sheppard Stubway line at Willowdale Avenue to allow for a future subway station.

The problem with Blythwood/Glencarin proposal on Yonge line is no provision was ever made for a station there,... the stretch of subway track there is NOT level. A subway station platform needs about 500 feet of level subway track otherwise the subway could accidentally roll when loading or unloading passengers. In addition, the tunnel support system must allow subway platforms to be added.

Is it possible to still add a subway station at Blythwood/Glencarin on the Yonge line? Anything is possible if you have a bottomless pit full of money! They would need to rebuild that tunnel to level both tracks and cut and cover requiring closing down Yonge Street road traffic along with shutting down that stretch of the Yonge Subway line for the duration of construction (how long did Union Station take to add just 1 platform without any track work?). Sure, this all makes sense so a handfull of people can cut a few minute from their walk to the closest subway station. There are many people in Toronto who would kill to get a 10 minute walk from their house to a subway station.

Its best to have these folks walk to Eglinton Station,... there'll be nice new buildings at 3 of the 4 corners,... and if they ever figure out what to do with the old Eglinton bus terminal, it'll be new towers at all 4 corners! The challenge is desiging good pedestrian flow from street level to subway,... sounds simple but city planning and TTC isn't known for getting these simple things done right.
 

Big Daddy

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Who cares about additional stops? We need additional lines!

I have close friends who are so fed up with the congestion on the Yonge line and are considering moving to another city to get away from it.

My own daughter, who now works downtown, refuses to use the Yonge line anymore because it's so over crowded in the rush hours and there is no relief in sight - New York, which already has a great transit system downtown - is still building subways (two lines under construction right now) and we can't get our collective sh*t together enough to add an additional line to make our ONE downtown line functional again. Instead we extend the existing lines so we can add even more people onto already over capacity Yonge Spadina lines and argue about adding more stations.

We will choke on our own success at some point and its not that far away. there is no plan in the works for a relief line (other than Tory's GO train option) and it takes ten years to build once they agree on which line to build.
 

renvel

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Willowdale Station

In the process of designing a new subway line or extention, they discuss potential stops such as they did with Yonge extention north of Eglinton to Finch and most of these midpoint stops (Glencarin, Yonge Blvd - Glen Echo, Empress - North York Centre) never see the light of day again since the forcast for low ridership and lack of intersecting arterial road. These midway stops generally don't go beyond simple talk, there's usually never any planning, design or engineering work on these stations,... except,.... and as you can see from that article,... "This extension to the North Yonge extension would feature one station at Finch Avenue, despite lobbying from North York that a second station be constructed at Park Home Avenue (the Empress station referred to before, and the site of the proposed North York Civic Centre). Although a level section was designed into the line at this point, where a station could be added, the TTC would refuse the request to build this station until the mid 1980s, when construction began on North York Centre station." In addition, at that point the tunnel was also built so that subway platforms could be placed there later on. When North York City Centre (2 office towers, hotel, library, retail-office podium, etc,..) got built, North York City Centre station (aka at Empress / ParkHome) got built at developer's cost.

North York Centre subway station is the busiest subway station in Toronto without a direct bus or streetcar connection; ridership is based only on local walk-in from the area offices and condo towers. This area have changed greatly from the 1960s when the Yonge subway extention was proposed to mid-1980s (when North York Centre subway station was added) when area was already undergoing urban intensification being championed by Mel Lastman. (Sadly, the most famous politician from Yonge-Blythwood/Glencarin and Yonge-YongeBlvd/GlenEcho area was flip-flopping Karen Stintz who's political career was always guided by her own self interest at the cost of her local constituents.)

Also, if you compare the built-form of Yonge-Blythwood/Glencarin and Yonge-YongeBlvd/GlenEcho area from 1960s when these midpoint subway stops were discussed to today,... 99% of the buildings and houses that were there in 1960s are still there today! Same density, same everything,... only major change at these areas are new SportingLife store,... and GlenEcho North Toronto stop became a Loblaws,... oh, and more front lawns paved over for car parking spaces! So this is probably one of the few times the TTC did something right,... by not putting subway station or provision for one at these locations.

Besides North York Centre (Empress/ParkHome) Willowdale Avenue on the Sheppard Stubway line is the only other potential station that can be added to an existing subway line that I can think of off the top of my head. (Anyone know of any other?) It was considered during planning for Sheppard Stubway line but rejected due to some community opposition, low ridership prediction and shoe-string budget due to Mike Harris cuts. But provisions where built on the Sheppard Stubway line at Willowdale Avenue to allow for a future subway station.

The problem with Blythwood/Glencarin proposal on Yonge line is no provision was ever made for a station there,... the stretch of subway track there is NOT level. A subway station platform needs about 500 feet of level subway track otherwise the subway could accidentally roll when loading or unloading passengers. In addition, the tunnel support system must allow subway platforms to be added.

Is it possible to still add a subway station at Blythwood/Glencarin on the Yonge line? Anything is possible if you have a bottomless pit full of money! They would need to rebuild that tunnel to level both tracks and cut and cover requiring closing down Yonge Street road traffic along with shutting down that stretch of the Yonge Subway line for the duration of construction (how long did Union Station take to add just 1 platform without any track work?). Sure, this all makes sense so a handfull of people can cut a few minute from their walk to the closest subway station. There are many people in Toronto who would kill to get a 10 minute walk from their house to a subway station.

Its best to have these folks walk to Eglinton Station,... there'll be nice new buildings at 3 of the 4 corners,... and if they ever figure out what to do with the old Eglinton bus terminal, it'll be new towers at all 4 corners! The challenge is desiging good pedestrian flow from street level to subway,... sounds simple but city planning and TTC isn't known for getting these simple things done right.

Right on!
The Willowdale Station on the Sheppard line is the way to go.
 

WislaHD

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If a Glencairn/Blythwood station is added on the Yonge line, I don't foresee the kind of development we see at North York City Centre happening there. High rises would not be approved there. Instead, it will be the domain of midrise condo developers.

If constructed, it would probably be the lowest ridership station on the Yonge line, the LCBO at Summerhill would probably generate more ridership than a Blythwood station. All the while increasing commute times for anyone north of Blythwood (ie, most Yonge riders) by a few minutes.
 

kris

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Who cares about additional stops? We need additional lines!

I have close friends who are so fed up with the congestion on the Yonge line and are considering moving to another city to get away from it.

My own daughter, who now works downtown, refuses to use the Yonge line anymore because it's so over crowded in the rush hours and there is no relief in sight - New York, which already has a great transit system downtown - is still building subways (two lines under construction right now) and we can't get our collective sh*t together enough to add an additional line to make our ONE downtown line functional again. Instead we extend the existing lines so we can add even more people onto already over capacity Yonge Spadina lines and argue about adding more stations.

We will choke on our own success at some point and its not that far away. there is no plan in the works for a relief line (other than Tory's GO train option) and it takes ten years to build once they agree on which line to build.

Blame our collectively shitty politicians. My sister works downtown and takes the Yonge line and hates it.

Our politicians rather have dozens of meetings talking about what they might do then actually doing anything. They don't take transit and as long as they get their 100k+ a year they really don't care about it. We know what we need in this city, they should be getting it done.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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If a Glencairn/Blythwood station is added on the Yonge line, I don't foresee the kind of development we see at North York City Centre happening there. High rises would not be approved there. Instead, it will be the domain of midrise condo developers.

If constructed, it would probably be the lowest ridership station on the Yonge line, the LCBO at Summerhill would probably generate more ridership than a Blythwood station. All the while increasing commute times for anyone north of Blythwood (ie, most Yonge riders) by a few minutes.


IMHO, Summerhill and Rosedale station should have been built originally as just one station.

Those relatively few people who live near Glencarin/Blythwood and work downtown are better off going north to Lawrence station to catch the southbound subway train. Because if they go south to Eglinton to catch the southbound train during AM peak time, they'll be waiting on the southbound platform as countless packed southbound train go by! And this is the least of the problem right now!

Interestingly, you folks are only talking about current condition on Yonge subway line,... Guess what,... There's a double whammy tsunami on the horizon!

Eglinton Crosstown line should be completed in 2020. A lot of people who currently use the east-west Bloor-Danforth line will be switching to the new Eglinton Crosstown and be using that already packed southbound platform at Eglinton going downtown in AM peak time. Thus instead of navigating through Bloor-Yonge interchange station, these folks will be going through Eglinton-Yonge interchange station,... which is already packed now! They should really be discussing adding side platforms at Eglinton station (a la Bloor-Yonge discussion before with 2 side platform and centre platform so trains could do all door boarding and exit simultaneously). (A previous article showed a cut and cover at Eglinton for the Yonge line extention north, part of it became the open plaza space where RIO-CAN is now building at north-west corner of Yonge&Eglinton,... sadly, nobody had the foresight to relocate Eglinton station slightly north to that point where new stations platforms could have been built with sides and centre platforms and it would have been under Eglinton Avenue so Eglinton Crosstown could have intersected it in the middle instead of a less functional odd T-interchange like Bloor-Yonge)

If you're thinking, don't worry, Yonge Automatic Train Control will be ready by 2017 and allow about 35-40% more capacity,... Come on, when has the TTC ever delivered what's promised on time as promised???? Right now, they're talking Yonge ATC being delayed until 2021. Anyways,... You better pray that Yonge ATC gets here before Eglinton Crosstown is completed.

But what about Yonge line relief from mayor John Tory's SmartTrack plan,... it'll soon be 2015 and SmartTrack will take 7 years (ie 2022) IF it gets complete cooperation from all levels of governments and the city is allowed to use existing track infrastructure that doesn't even belong to them!

The other tsunami is all the high density development like this one at 1 Eglinton East,... 68 storey,.... that's going to be close to 1,000 units! About 2,000 people if all condo, more if office component,... 1,000 units is probably enough to fill both sides of a 5km residential street,... and it's built vertically at one point. Each tower represent a street full of people at one point instead of being spread over a much larger area. Multiply that by all the development that's currently going on in Yonge-Eglinton area and add in those that we'll see in the near future,.... especially along Eglinton Crosstown - hey, city isn't building Eglinton Crosstown to service the existing low density neighbourhoods,... city is building it so they can increase density along Eglinton so they can collect more property tax revenue.

High density development brings in a lot more people,... but city does a lousy job of building any infrastructure to handle all those extra people,... the city can't even handle all the people on the Yonge line now!

Bottomline,... if you work downtown, move to downtown,.... you can't rely on transit or anything from any level of government in this town.
 
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salsa

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Eglinton Crosstown line should be completed in 2020. A lot of people who currently use the east-west Bloor-Danforth line will be switching to the new Eglinton Crosstown and be using that already packed southbound platform at Eglinton going downtown in AM peak time. Thus instead of navigating through Bloor-Yonge interchange station, these folks will be going through Eglinton-Yonge interchange station,... which is already packed now!

It can also be argued that many of the existing riders coming from east of Yonge will transfer at Eglinton West station instead of Eglinton & Yonge, since they won't have to transfer to another bus anymore in order to access the Spadina line. But nevertheless you're probably right that the existing situation will only get worse.
 

WislaHD

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Yes, we were discussing recently in the Scarborough thread about how the Crosstown is a missed opportunity to rebuild Yonge-Eglinton station as a Spanish Solution station with a center and 2 side platforms.

Yonge-Eglinton will become a bottleneck like Yonge-Bloor except that the central platform on Eglinton is significantly smaller than the platforms on Bloor. At least some riders heading eastbound on Eglinton will be looking to transfer onto the Spadina line instead of the Yonge line as salsa said.

It is not just transit infrastructure the city is falling behind in. The nearby schools in the area are already near capacity and we are adding thousands of residents with no plans for where their kids will go to school. I also believe the sewage infrastructure here isn't meant to handle this proposed density, though I might be wrong on that one.
 
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WiddleBittyKitty

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Blame our collectively shitty politicians. My sister works downtown and takes the Yonge line and hates it.

Our politicians rather have dozens of meetings talking about what they might do then actually doing anything. They don't take transit and as long as they get their 100k+ a year they really don't care about it. We know what we need in this city, they should be getting it done.


You're right, it's fully the politicians' fault, not partly the fault of the electorate who keep telling them to not to raise taxes to pay for new transit.
 

sunnyraytoronto

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Yes, we were discussing recently in the Scarborough thread about how the Crosstown is a missed opportunity to rebuild Yonge-Eglinton station as a Spanish Solution station with a center and 2 side platforms.

Yonge-Eglinton will become a bottleneck like Yonge-Bloor except that the central platform on Eglinton is significantly smaller than the platforms on Bloor. At least some riders heading eastbound on Eglinton will be looking to transfer onto the Spadina line instead of the Yonge line as salsa said.

It is not just transit infrastructure the city is falling behind in. The nearby schools in the area are already near capacity and we are adding thousands of residents with no plans for where their kids will go to school. I also believe the sewage infrastructure here isn't meant to handle this proposed density, though I might be wrong on that one.


You really have to wonder,... do they only have idiots working at the TTC?

The design of Eglinton WEST station isn't great either, the Eglinton Crosstown will be directly below Eglinton Avenue but Eglinton station on Spadina line is north of Eglinton Avenue,... so the interchange station is worst than that T-shape interchange at Bloor-Yonge interchange station.

Midtown has a number of very good schools especially high schools,... and that'll attract a lot of families into the new condos. And that's the same problem we have in North York Centre,.... local school capacity can't handle all the new residents. Solution in North York Centre is that only the kids from the single residential houses are basically guranteed a spot in the local schools (doesn't matter if they just moved in yesterday),... kids from high density condos are generally given lower priority and are only allowed into local school is there's space, otherwise, they're bused out to a school outside of the area - where there's capacity. That'll likely be the same solution in midtown.

And it really becomes a game where the city is really downloading their responsibility for building infrastructures onto the developer via Section 37. And as a resident, you have to fight for more usable section 37 benefits for your community,... parks, open space, schools rebuilds, road improvements, etc,...
 

salsa

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The new subway map has appeared on the BD line. Note that the legend for Line 1 says "Yonge-University Line".

16117535575_c20fcbe667_b.jpg
 

ksun

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You have no taste for beautiful architecture, ksun. Lawrence West is now, undoubtedly, one of the top 5 best designed metro stations in the world. And it's all thanks to the care and craftsmanship put into the work. I would attempt explain to you why this station is so beautiful, but I don't think I should waste my energy on someone as hopeless as you. Good riddance.

;)

And how many metro stations have you seen? Well designed, maybe, but it's not exactly that hard to design a station with low usage (by world standard). Such a hyperbole to say it's the top five in the world. TTC does not have anything that's top 20 in the world.
 

LNahid2000

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And how many metro stations have you seen? Well designed, maybe, but it's not exactly that hard to design a station with low usage (by world standard). Such a hyperbole to say it's the top five in the world. TTC does not have anything that's top 20 in the world.
Haha you totally missed the sarcasm in his post.
 

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