TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Richard White]

In the latest Vision Zero update to Infrastructure and Environment Ctte, I spied something I've been supportive for ages, moving ahead:

TTC staff will be carrying out a detailed, system-wide stop rationalization review over the next year and will report back to the TTC Board.

Fulll Report here:

Agenda Item History - 2019.IE8.8

I wonder if they will eliminate request stops as a result.

I see it regularly where people get off midblock because their street is close to where they are let off. Meanwhile people run across a major street midblock to cross.

The intention behind them is good but it is not exactly safe.

 

[drum118]

What was up on Queen at the Don today, as 501 and 504 on Detour by Dundas?? I could see from Parliament at Queen while doing some shooting, an eastbound car sitting west of the bridge and an westbound on top of the bridge. With all the 504 passing me as I walked north from King, I suspected something was up on King. When I saw a 501 turning west onto Queen, I figure something over by Broadview until I hit Queen.

It was on mess for traffic going south on Parliament to the point there were 2-4 Flexity within a few feet of each other.

Taking about having 2 Flexity as one unit that would block intersection, I saw that today at Shutter. Have a photo of it. There was no way any traffic E-W was getting pass the 2nd car and one of those cars wanting to go west was a police car. Traffic was the main issues, but the TTC driver should have known better not to cross Shutter.

 

[smallspy]

What was up on Queen at the Don today, as 501 and 504 on Detour by Dundas?? I could see from Parliament at Queen while doing some shooting, an eastbound car sitting west of the bridge and an westbound on top of the bridge. With all the 504 passing me as I walked north from King, I suspected something was up on King. When I saw a 501 turning west onto Queen, I figure something over by Broadview until I hit Queen.

There were a number of incidents around the core yesterday - power was off to the wires on King for a section, and two different incidents involving passengers getting hit by cars passing open doors. Apparently it was quite the fun afternoon to be downtown.

Dan

 

[Jonny5]

Taking about having 2 Flexity as one unit that would block intersection, I saw that today at Shutter. Have a photo of it. There was no way any traffic E-W was getting pass the 2nd car and one of those cars wanting to go west was a police car. Traffic was the main issues, but the TTC driver should have known better not to cross Shutter.

I have seen a few instances where out-of-service Flexity cars completely blocked all traffic for an extended period. Twice I've spotted cars southbound on Parliament approaching Queen holding out of service and appear not to realise the far back of the car is adjacent or nearly adjacent to a parked vehicle, so literally no southbound traffic on Parliament can pass while I guess they are waiting for instructions about where to go next.

One of those times the backup got so long I saw carrs passing the Flexity on the left , literally driving on the wrong side of the road to get around it as there appeared to be no other way for them to get out of the situation. Even turning around would be difficult as there was insufficient space unless you did an Auston Powers style 3000 point turn.

 

[drum118]

There were a number of incidents around the core yesterday - power was off to the wires on King for a section, and two different incidents involving passengers getting hit by cars passing open doors. Apparently it was quite the fun afternoon to be downtown.

Dan

Seeing the 501 & 504 on Parliament St was something, especially trying to go south. It was a mess. Try telling the Queen folks to go to the Parliament stop to catch the 501 and looked at me and keep looking for that car that wasn't coming. Only one person took my advise and the other 20+ just watch cars turn west onto Queen.

Was on a car where the driver lay on the horn when he saw 2 different time cars going to blow the open door. On rider was almost go hit as they about to step off when the car blew the doors at speeds in excess of 50 km.

Cars were passing the 504 on Gerard in the westbound lane while we were going east of all things.

 

[drum118]

Toronto can't do this until "THE FOOL Invest IN Transit And Built The System TO Do It That Should Have Been Built 20 Years Ago"

Transit can no longer ignore the benefits linked to offering free fares

 

[Neutrino]

Are there still signal/crossover delays northbound from St. George? Might need to travel this segment today at lunch time.

 

[DSC]

Are there still signal/crossover delays northbound from St. George? Might need to travel this segment today at lunch time.

TTC site shows nothing: http://ttc.ca/Service_Advisories/all_service_alerts.jsp

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the Toronto-Ontario Transit Update of October 15, 2019, at this link.

Funding for State of Good Repair Needs and Transit Expansion - The Province's proposal indicates that it would not seek capital contributions from the City for the Province's four priority expansion projects (Ontario Line, Line 2 East Extension, Yonge Subway Extension, and Eglinton West Light Rail Transit), in accordance with the commitment that the City will redirect the capital contributions it would have otherwise been expected to make toward incremental investments in the state-of-good-repair needs of the system, as illustrated in the letter attached from the Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Transit Commission, Rick Leary. The Province would also consider the redirection of these funds to investment in other transit expansion priorities identified by Council, based on a fully developed business case, and subject to credible progress to the relief of the state of good repair backlog in the subway system.

-City costs of $1.2375 billion were fully funded through a dedicated (property) tax levy and development charges. Subject to Council decision, the funds from the dedicated levy can be redirected to another purpose.

- Funding can now be redirected to subway State of Good Repair and other transit expansion projects.

Redirection of Funds:

The Provincial proposal is based on the principle that each of the City and Province will be responsible for a proportional share of the required investment in state of good repair and expansion, representing an incremental investment in transit in Toronto. Below is a summary of staff's assessment of the minimum amount of City capital that will be redirected to incremental subway State of Good Repair and other City transit expansion priorities:

- $1.2375 billion of funded contributions in the Capital Plan to Line 2 East Extension can be redirected.

- $2.106 billion in capital contributions for the Relief Line South that the City would have been required to make in order to maximize the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund Phase 2 contributions. This amount is currently unfunded.

- $1.8 billion in unfunded capital contributions for the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit can be redirected once a funding source is identified.

- Once a funding source is identified for the currently unfunded $3.9 billion in capital contributions noted above, at a minimum approximately $5.1 billion in City funds will be required to be redirected to Toronto Transit Commission subway State of Good Repair and/or expansion projects.

The Province has conveyed in their letters a nominal expectation of City contributions based on committed amounts to the one-stop Line 2 East Extension and the Eglinton West Light Rail Transit, as well as a 27 percent share of the current estimate for the Ontario Line and a pro rata share of the Yonge Subway Extension. The Province has communicated that they estimate this contribution to be approximately $6 billion.

The needs of the approximately $24 + billion unfunded Toronto Transit Commission State of Good Repair backlog, plus the funds needed for other City expansion projects exceeds by multiple factors the funding considered above.

Additional funding above and beyond the $5.1 billion identified here will be required to meet Toronto Transit Commission State of Good Repair and expansion needs.

As per the terms, the City and Province commit to seek additional federal funding commitments to work to address these needs.

The money ($5.1 billion) that the City of Toronto would have spent on their portion of the the Line 2 extension, Relief Line, and Eglinton West LRT, etc., will now be directed towards the TTC's State of Good Repair and Expansion. There are a lot of appendixes to go through and read attached to the report.

 

[JSF-1]

I personally think the Line 2 ATC project needs to happen now. We have the money, why not do it now and not have to deal with it later when the cost will have inevitably gone up. The biggest obstacle to the ATC project was funding and now that shouldn't be a problem now. Not doing it now would be a huge missed opportunity that will cost us in the future. As well with Line 1 going to ATC, and the OL being built with it, the last thing we need is Line 2 to become the bottle neck of the system since it can't keep up with the other lines it feeds into. Also it would be stupid to not build the SSE with ATC while the rest of the line is still block. Similarly it would be even stupider to build the SSE with Block Signals than have to spend even more money later to upgrade it and the rest of Line 2. Theoretically we now have the money and we could convert Line 2 to ATC in time for the SSE's opening.

 

[Richard White]

I personally think the Line 2 ATC project needs to happen now. We have the money, why not do it now and not have to deal with it later when the cost will have inevitably gone up. The biggest obstacle to the ATC project was funding and now that shouldn't be a problem now. Not doing it now would be a huge missed opportunity that will cost us in the future. As well with Line 1 going to ATC, and the OL being built with it, the last thing we need is Line 2 to become the bottle neck of the system since it can't keep up with the other lines it feeds into. Also it would be stupid to not build the SSE with ATC while the rest of the line is still block. Similarly it would be even stupider to build the SSE with Block Signals than have to spend even more money later to upgrade it and the rest of Line 2. Theoretically we now have the money and we could convert Line 2 to ATC in time for the SSE's opening.

Problem is that you will not only need new signals but the trains to run the line.

The T1s are not ATC compatible which is why they were yoinked from Line 1.

 

[JSF-1]

Problem is that you will not only need new signals but the trains to run the line.

The T1s are not ATC compatible which is why they were yoinked from Line 1.

Yes I know that, and there is no time like now to do something about it. I believe the Line 2 ATC project up until this year was supposed to start shortly after Line 1's completion, however due to funding not being available the project and the procurement of new trains was pushed off until something like 2030. However assuming the City and Province agree on the new funding terms, the money is now there to do the project under something similar to the original timeline. It's better we spend like 1 Billion today than have to spend 2 Billion tomorrow on the same thing. Like everything the price of ATC conversion isn't going to get cheaper nor is the price for new trains, and I want to believe we weren't going to be dumb enough to build the SSE extension with normal block signals only to have to pay for it along side the rest of Line 2 in the conversion. It's just more money out the window that could have been avoided with some forward thinking.

 

[smallspy]

I personally think the Line 2 ATC project needs to happen now. We have the money, why not do it now and not have to deal with it later when the cost will have inevitably gone up. The biggest obstacle to the ATC project was funding and now that shouldn't be a problem now. Not doing it now would be a huge missed opportunity that will cost us in the future. As well with Line 1 going to ATC, and the OL being built with it, the last thing we need is Line 2 to become the bottle neck of the system since it can't keep up with the other lines it feeds into. Also it would be stupid to not build the SSE with ATC while the rest of the line is still block. Similarly it would be even stupider to build the SSE with Block Signals than have to spend even more money later to upgrade it and the rest of Line 2. Theoretically we now have the money and we could convert Line 2 to ATC in time for the SSE's opening.

But we don't have the money now. That's why it's not scheduled to happen for some time as yet.

The reason why the YUS was done first wasn't just because the capacity was needed - although that certainly helped sell it to the politicians - but it was also because a large part of the existing signalling equipment was life-expired and obsolete, and failures had started to become more common. That isn't the case with the equipment installed on the B-D, at least not yet.

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

The TTC started the ATC signal upgrade on Line 1 back in 2008 (source from link). Still not completed as of today. The T-1 trains were last delivered in 2001, while the TR were last delivered in 2015.

If the upgrade for Line 2 can be spread out over the remaining years of the life that the T-1 trains have, they maybe ready for ATC on Line 2 by the time the TTC places an new order for ATC trains. Hopefully, with less weekend subway closures on Line 2 compared with Line 1.

 

[rbt]

From the TTC unfunded capital projects list, I would tend toward bus/streetcar items for the $5B over 10 years (2020 through 2030) on the below projects.

With Metrolinx wholly responsible for TTC subway expansion, I think they'll find themselves wanting to fund basic capacity enhancements too as otherwise they won't have anything to extend. TTC is only obligated to fund minimal SOGR to maintain service, even if that line of thought does break the spirit of this agreement.

• Diesel Bus purchase: $1.8B (or electric if they prove reliable, the last capital list has pricing for Diesel)
• Bus Collision Centre: $250M
• Bus Overhaul Facility: $250M (can this be combined with the above?)
• Davenport Garage Renewal: $93M
• 60 + 40 Streetcar Order: $500M
• Streetcar Maintenance/Storage Facility: $900M
• Expansion: East Bayfront: ~$1.2B (I'd trade this for a King East ROW extension and a Lower Jarvis/Queens Quay/Parliament loop)

With GO expansion and Bloor-Yonge rebuild both funded, TTC needs to focus on getting people to rapid transit lines; Metrolinx doesn't and some department needs to.