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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

That was over five years ago. Guaranteed it's gotten worse...

I regularly see people on a route like King with their face glued to the phone displaying either Google Maps or some other transit ride app for a trip from, say, King and Yonge to King and Sherbourne. It's like they are plotting a 15th century trip across the ocean or something. That three stop trip is apparently a super stressful and confusing journey, even with the automated stop announcements, which seem to be totally ignored.
 
I regularly see people on a route like King with their face glued to the phone displaying either Google Maps or some other transit ride app for a trip from, say, King and Yonge to King and Sherbourne. It's like they are plotting a 15th century trip across the ocean or something. That three stop trip is apparently a super stressful and confusing journey, even with the automated stop announcements, which seem to be totally ignored.
They also vote, drive and procreate. We're in deep trouble...
 
Saw this at St. George, does anyone know what a steady yellow light on ATC signaled track means?
IMG_20190525_074142.jpg
 
And have university degrees. And if I want to be an ass, I’ll say in English literature.
Don't lose the reference for which that was posted though. It's irrelevant as to what degree they have or not or even Grade 3 graduation for that matter:
I regularly see people on a route like King with their face glued to the phone displaying either Google Maps or some other transit ride app for a trip from, say, King and Yonge to King and Sherbourne. It's like they are plotting a 15th century trip across the ocean or something. That three stop trip is apparently a super stressful and confusing journey, even with the automated stop announcements, which seem to be totally ignored.
 
Saw this at St. George, does anyone know what a steady yellow light on ATC signaled track means?View attachment 187445

Looks like a mixed mode operation that allows CBTC and manual trains to run under their own rulesets. A non-CBTC train that follows a CBTC one must follow conventional signals which enforce a minimum separation distance. Could be that the next train was running manually or that there was a localized radio problem.

Some extra reading (external PDF): 7 Key CBTC Functions by Naeem Ali (who has worked on many CBTC systems including the TTC's). Specifically section 7.4/7.5
 
^ That link @BB ON posts is fascinating reading, one of the easier to understand publications on the matter, but I have some questions as to how much the TTC complies with what's generally a railway use.

So did some quick digging, couldn't find anything directly on the subject of system overlay on the TTC's present use, but did find this:
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...Control_Re-Baselining_and_Transit_Systems.pdf

I've yet to read it slowly and digest while doing so...but there's some pretty unsettling chapters/paragraphs to it, especially toward the end. That's all I'll state at this time.
 
Looks like a mixed mode operation that allows CBTC and manual trains to run under their own rulesets. A non-CBTC train that follows a CBTC one must follow conventional signals which enforce a minimum separation distance. Could be that the next train was running manually or that there was a localized radio problem.

Some extra reading (external PDF): 7 Key CBTC Functions by Naeem Ali (who has worked on many CBTC systems including the TTC's). Specifically section 7.4/7.5

I agree with the mixed mode ops. There's a track leading to the BD line from St. George and that signal was probably protecting the interlocking. The yellow switched to a flashing green as a line 1 train approached the station.
 
These are the various signal indications for the new signal system:

Flashing green = clear to proceed through interlocking in ATO or CABS (manual mode with full signalling active)
Solid yellow = clear to proceed through interlocking in MAN (manual mode with degraded signalling) on straight routing
Flashing yellow = clear to proceed through interlocking in MAN on diverging routing
Solid red = stop and stay
Flashing red = Call-on

Dan
 
Question for the resident rail experts, @crs1026 and @smallspy

When regular freight rail operations lay track, so far as I understand they don't use concrete around or under their rails, just ties and ballast.

Assuming my understanding is correct......why do tunneled metro/subway/lrts tend to have concrete under their tracks?

****

Second question, I've seen automated rail laying machines in use on may surface railway projects around the world. I don't think I've ever seen one here, or one in any tunneled area.

Why not?

Just wondering....

Thanks for any insight!
 
Question for the resident rail experts, @crs1026 and @smallspy

When regular freight rail operations lay track, so far as I understand they don't use concrete around or under their rails, just ties and ballast.

Assuming my understanding is correct......why do tunneled metro/subway/lrts tend to have concrete under their tracks?

There are a number of different methods of laying track, and ties-in-ballast is, as you noted, just one method. And all of them have their own strengths and drawbacks.

"Direct fixation" is a catch-all term used to describe rails fixed to a concrete base, and its strengths are that is the most stable in that it is virtually impossible for the track to shift. That makes it well suited for situations where trains will travel through a restricted gauge structure, such as a tunnel. It's also becoming more and more common for high speed lines, as it generally requires less frequent maintenance. Its drawbacks include being the most expensive type of track-laying (when compared to the others), it is far more complicated to calculate and deal with rail-borne vibration, and that drainage is now a far more complicated process.

"Standard" ties-in-ballast is the de-facto standard because it's a known quantity that happens to be very versatile and can be constructed quickly, easily and cheaply. Construction and assembly can be done by machine or by hand. Drainage is seldom an issue, as the ballast should be course enough to allow water through easily. And there are all sorts of different types and size of tie to help deal with any issue that may arise, from high water to termites to tonnage issues to specialwork. Even upgrading the track is generally not a big issue, and there is special machinery that can be used to do so. The downside is that there needs to be an ongoing maintenance regimen in order to keep the track at its desired specification. This isn't just alignment either - while ballast is very good for drainage, over time it can get filled with "fines" (another catch-all used to describe silt, sand, dust - anything that can clog up the ballast and cause it to lose its drainage ability), and thus may need to be cleaned over time.

What the TTC uses is a kind of hybrid between direct fixation and ties-in-ballast - the rails are fixed to large concrete slabs, which are then suspended by rubber in a concrete trough that is poured as part of the tunnelling process. It deals with vibration much better than direct fixation and is far more stable in alignment than ties-in-ballast, but it still has all of the same issues with drainage and cost.

So, why would a metro or LRT prioritize direct fixation over ties-in-ballast? Some of it may come down to gauge - there is not much room between a subway train and the tunnel wall, and thus the keeping of alignment is paramount. As well, maintenance opportunities are scarce, and that may be another reason why direct fixation is chosen.

Second question, I've seen automated rail laying machines in use on may surface railway projects around the world. I don't think I've ever seen one here, or one in any tunneled area.

Why not?

Just wondering....

Thanks for any insight!

Automated rail laying and tie changeout machines have existed for the railways for many years. And the base for direct fixation track can be made using a slip-form machine (and is today). But think of it this way - how do you install the rail plates, align everything and install the rail - while the concrete is wet? The answer is that you can't - while the plates and some basic alignment can be done while the concrete sets, the base needs to be cured before you can start to install the rail.

Dan
 
There are a number of different methods of laying track, and ties-in-ballast is, as you noted, just one method. And all of them have their own strengths and drawbacks.

"Direct fixation" is a catch-all term used to describe rails fixed to a concrete base, and its strengths are that is the most stable in that it is virtually impossible for the track to shift. That makes it well suited for situations where trains will travel through a restricted gauge structure, such as a tunnel. It's also becoming more and more common for high speed lines, as it generally requires less frequent maintenance. Its drawbacks include being the most expensive type of track-laying (when compared to the others), it is far more complicated to calculate and deal with rail-borne vibration, and that drainage is now a far more complicated process.

"Standard" ties-in-ballast is the de-facto standard because it's a known quantity that happens to be very versatile and can be constructed quickly, easily and cheaply. Construction and assembly can be done by machine or by hand. Drainage is seldom an issue, as the ballast should be course enough to allow water through easily. And there are all sorts of different types and size of tie to help deal with any issue that may arise, from high water to termites to tonnage issues to specialwork. Even upgrading the track is generally not a big issue, and there is special machinery that can be used to do so. The downside is that there needs to be an ongoing maintenance regimen in order to keep the track at its desired specification. This isn't just alignment either - while ballast is very good for drainage, over time it can get filled with "fines" (another catch-all used to describe silt, sand, dust - anything that can clog up the ballast and cause it to lose its drainage ability), and thus may need to be cleaned over time.

What the TTC uses is a kind of hybrid between direct fixation and ties-in-ballast - the rails are fixed to large concrete slabs, which are then suspended by rubber in a concrete trough that is poured as part of the tunnelling process. It deals with vibration much better than direct fixation and is far more stable in alignment than ties-in-ballast, but it still has all of the same issues with drainage and cost.

So, why would a metro or LRT prioritize direct fixation over ties-in-ballast? Some of it may come down to gauge - there is not much room between a subway train and the tunnel wall, and thus the keeping of alignment is paramount. As well, maintenance opportunities are scarce, and that may be another reason why direct fixation is chosen.



Automated rail laying and tie changeout machines have existed for the railways for many years. And the base for direct fixation track can be made using a slip-form machine (and is today). But think of it this way - how do you install the rail plates, align everything and install the rail - while the concrete is wet? The answer is that you can't - while the plates and some basic alignment can be done while the concrete sets, the base needs to be cured before you can start to install the rail.

Dan

Thank you very much; a very detailed answer which helps me get at the reasoning involved!
 

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