TTC: New Fare Gate Installation

[cplchanb]

The problem would be privacy concerns. Very interesting though that the technology is 'there' and about to be proven.

fare enforcement would be impossible. Sure the camera would pick up any jumpers but by the time anyone can react the person may be long gone.
Imagine the backlog if they were to prosecute every jumper using this gate. This can only work in more 'civilised' systems such as in japan.

 

[Streety McCarface]

fare enforcement would be impossible. Sure the camera would pick up any jumpers but by the time anyone can react the person may be long gone.
Imagine the backlog if they were to prosecute every jumper using this gate. This can only work in more 'civilised' systems such as in japan.

In singapore, they probably have a record of everyone so it's not like it would matter. Police can utilize cameras to see who's fare evading and fine them based on facial identification accordingly.

 

[Steve X]

The problem would be privacy concerns. Very interesting though that the technology is 'there' and about to be proven.

They's still recording you on the TTC, I don't see much difference here and yes they can still identify you under the current system with your registered presto card.

Such gateless gates would only be suitable for busy locations.

 

[steveintoronto]

There's a massive difference. Of course you can be tracked with Presto, especially if the card is registered, but you have to *tap* it to be recognized. Remote sensing takes things to the level of being traced by your cell-phone, which you can turn off if concerned about tracking.

Face recognition software, btw, is wildly inaccurate, and only in limited use.

 

[Leo_Chan]

There's a massive difference. Of course you can be tracked with Presto, especially if the card is registered, but you have to *tap* it to be recognized. Remote sensing takes things to the level of being traced by your cell-phone, which you can turn off if concerned about tracking.

Face recognition software, btw, is wildly inaccurate, and only in limited use.

Use extremely high powered direction NFC readers and you can track people's Preto card usage without physically tapping.

 

[muller877]

Face recognition software, btw, is wildly inaccurate, and only in limited use.

I have seen the actual central control location for a facial recognition system that are already deployed in China. It is very accurate and has AI so that the capability gets better the more times it sees a person.

They said it was only about 75% accurate when first turned on and has already improved to 98% accuracy. And they are working to improve it to the next percentage.

Basically they said if you are a resident of the city they are confident that you can be identified. But if there aren't enough pictures of you there is less confidence. Basically the more cameras there are the more accurate it is.

 

[DSC]

I have seen the actual central control location for a facial recognition system that are already deployed in China. It is very accurate and has AI so that the capability gets better the more times it sees a person.

They said it was only about 75% accurate when first turned on and has already improved to 98% accuracy. And they are working to improve it to the next percentage.

Basically they said if you are a resident of the city they are confident that you can be identified. But if there aren't enough pictures of you there is less confidence. Basically the more cameras there are the more accurate it is.

....and you think this is a good idea that we should introduce here? Go read 1984!

 

[steveintoronto]

I have seen the actual central control location for a facial recognition system that are already deployed in China. It is very accurate and has AI so that the capability gets better the more times it sees a person.

They said it was only about 75% accurate when first turned on and has already improved to 98% accuracy. And they are working to improve it to the next percentage.

Basically they said if you are a resident of the city they are confident that you can be identified. But if there aren't enough pictures of you there is less confidence. Basically the more cameras there are the more accurate it is.

Until you can supply reference otherwise, I'll stick with my claim:

Facial-recognition software inaccurate in 98% of cases, report finds ...
https://www.cnet.com/.../facial-recognition-software-inaccurate-in-98-of-metropolitan...
May 13, 2018 - Facial recognition may not be the high-tech policing solution it's purported to be, with new figures showing facial-recognition software used by ...
Face recognition police tools 'staggeringly inaccurate' - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44089161
May 15, 2018 - Police must address concerns over the use of facial recognition systems or may face legal action, the UK's privacy watchdog says. Information ...
Report: facial recognition software inaccurate in up to 98% of cases
https://www.fastcompany.com/.../report-facial-recognition-software-inaccurate-in-up-t...
May 14, 2018 - Report: facial recognition software inaccurate in up to 98% of cases. The Independent has published figures it gained under a freedom of information request that shows that the facial recognition software that U.K. police forces are trialing are mostly inaccurate.
Facial recognition is not just useless. In police hands, it is dangerous ...
https://www.theguardian.com/.../facial-recognition-useless-police-dangerous-met-inaccur...
May 16, 2018 - In one trial by the Met, the results were 98% inaccurate. People ... UK police use offacial recognition technology a failure, says report. Wed 16 ...
Police face-recognition technology branded 'dangerous and ... - The Sun
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/6290315/face-recognition-technology-accurate-police/
May 15, 2018 - Automated facial recognition software dubbed “dangerous and inaccurate” due to its inability to identify people correctly.
Facial recognition technology is "dangerously inaccurate" | IT PRO
www.itpro.co.uk › Policy & legislation › data protection
May 15, 2018 - Facial recognition is also used by South Wales Police, but 91% of its system's matches were inaccurate, despite the Home Office providing £2.6 ...
UK's facial-recognition tech is 'wrong 98 percent of the time'
https://nypost.com/2018/05/15/uks-facial-recognition-tech-is-wrong-98-of-the-time/
May 15, 2018 - Civil liberties group Big Brother Watch branded the automated facial recognitionsoftware as “dangerous and inaccurate” due to its inability to identify people correctly. The organization added that its use is “lawless” and could breach the right to privacy protected by the Human Rights Act.

etc, etc, etc....

 

[Leo_Chan]

Just wanted to share something I saw at Queens Park Station today.

So there was a lady that tried tapping her Presto card on the eastmost fare gate but it was stuck slightly open, no out of order display. She tried tapping again but it still didn’t work. So she got frustrated and slammed he wallet on the reader multiple times, still didn’t work. So she just forced her way through the gate out of rage. All while this was happening, there was a customer service agent just standing behind her looking, but didn’t do anything about it, I don’t blame him.

If this is how the high end of the Presto fare gate frustration is, then I’m worried about the gates.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

I'm noticing line ups in front of the fare gates during the busier peak periods. Such as that people are waiting for the person in front to go through and have the fare gate fully cycle before tapping or swiping. Anyone else experiencing this?

Perhaps I didn't pay much attention to it before but now I'm definitently noticing it as I have to wait for the people in front get through (yes I do have a Presto card and yes I do have a physical Metropass by choice).

 

[Richard White]

I'm noticing line ups in front of the fare gates during the busier peak periods. Such as that people are waiting for the person in front to go through and have the fare gate fully cycle before tapping or swiping. Anyone else experiencing this?

Perhaps I didn't pay much attention to it before but now I'm definitently noticing it as I have to wait for the people in front get through (yes I do have a Presto card and yes I do have a physical Metropass by choice).

I see it all the time at Union. The prevailing fear is that the gate will close on them.

 

[adHominem]

It does sting a bit having one close on you. I tend to let them shut if I can't head for an already closed gate or I can't follow hot on the heels of another person exiting/entering.

 

[steveintoronto]

Perhaps I didn't pay much attention to it before but now I'm definitently noticing it as I have to wait for the people in front get through

Yeah...this was being discussed in this or the Metrolinx Presto string, and a number of posters were claiming they had no problem with it....which I find truly vexing. It's incredibly obvious that the actuation motor speed has been slowed, or never was that fast to begin with. Frankly I can't be bothered waiting, it's very poor design. I just push the doors against their strain release mechanism. They give way with a couple of kilos of force.

I used the analogy of putting the tops on cans or Coke bottles, which is cued by an IR beam as the can or bottle approaches, and the top is on at a rate of ten or more per second.

And they can't make Presto gates open in a second? Something's fugged...

But worry not, posters will be along shortly to defend Presto, no matter what.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think the biggest problem is that people stand inside of the sensors for the gate a swipe their metro pass or tap a presto card at them and then it doesn't work. There have been numerous times where I have told someone to step back and then tap and have also seen TTC staff tell people the same thing what they need to do is do something so that people know where to stand when they tap or swipe.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Yeah...this was being discussed in this or the Metrolinx Presto string, and a number of posters were claiming they had no problem with it....which I find truly vexing. It's incredibly obvious that the actuation motor speed has been slowed, or never was that fast to begin with. Frankly I can't be bothered waiting, it's very poor design. I just push the doors against their strain release mechanism. They give way with a couple of kilos of force.

I used the analogy of putting the tops on cans or Coke bottles, which is cued by an IR beam as the can or bottle approaches, and the top is on at a rate of ten or more per second.

And they can't make Presto gates open in a second? Something's fugged...

But worry not, posters will be along shortly to defend Presto, no matter what.

Which comes back to the question of wouldn't it be better to keep the gates open and have them close if someone fails to tap. I have a feeling that those at Metrolinx and the TTC never thought of this operation mode during the design and consultation phase...cause it's not done in Europe or the US.

On a slight tangent, I do noticed that when one is up at Sheppard, North York Centre and Finch the passengers there do know how to get through the fare gates quicker eg. following in a steady stream when exiting so the gates don't close and swiping or tapping before the gate closes when entering. I do wonder at times if it's mainly due to being accustomed to fare gates in their respective home countries. Just an interesting thought.