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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

bbdfollower

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This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer here... do the pantos allow for faster acceleration of flexies? Someone said there is a limitation on the amount of power that can be drawn through the poles which caused them to limit the draw of the A/C system... surely A/C draw is OOM less than what those cars pull for accelerating up a hill.
 

DSC

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This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find the answer here... do the pantos allow for faster acceleration of flexies? Someone said there is a limitation on the amount of power that can be drawn through the poles which caused them to limit the draw of the A/C system... surely A/C draw is OOM less than what those cars pull for accelerating up a hill.
It has been asked and answered many times! The pantos can draw more power and the Flexities should have more due to size, a/c etc and they cause less wear on the wire and panto as the wire is staggered. They also do not dewire.
 

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It has been asked and answered many times! The pantos can draw more power and the Flexities should have more due to size, a/c etc and they cause less wear on the wire and panto as the wire is staggered. They also do not dewire.

The pantographs can draw more power in theory, yes. That also requires larger contact wire however, and that hasn't happened here yet. So for the time being, there is no power advantage to running pantographs.

As for less wear on the wire, well, no, they don't. The wear pattern is simply different than with a shoe.

And while pantographs don't dewire, they do have other things happen to them instead, like getting snagged and broken. And a pantograph is several times more expensive than a trolley pole to replace. It remains to be seen how often that will happen here in Toronto, but on a large system such as Melbourne's they are replacing one or two pantographs per week.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

W. K. Lis

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And while pantographs don't dewire, they do have other things happen to them instead, like getting snagged and broken. And a pantograph is several times more expensive than a trolley pole to replace. It remains to be seen how often that will happen here in Toronto, but on a large system such as Melbourne's they are replacing one or two pantographs per week.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

smallspy

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us UTrs are obsessed with progress for the city's transit. pantos represent progress and Toronto finally reaching the world standard for electric rail
standards. Its been a long time coming.

But is it progress for progress' sake? Or is it actual progress?

Putting pantographs on each car isn't going to put more cars on the road. It's not going to lower the repair and maintenance budget by any appreciable amount for a very long time, if at all.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

cplchanb

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But is it progress for progress' sake? Or is it actual progress?

Putting pantographs on each car isn't going to put more cars on the road. It's not going to lower the repair and maintenance budget by any appreciable amount for a very long time, if at all.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
no it doesnt but it shows that ttc is finally willing to step out of their box and modernize. for all its worth they couldve called for poles only for this current order but at least theyre trying to conform with
what has been universally accepted for decades. That and the abolishment of the token which they still have yet to do fully
 

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The pantographs can draw more power in theory, yes. That also requires larger contact wire however, and that hasn't happened here yet. So for the time being, there is no power advantage to running pantographs.

As for less wear on the wire, well, no, they don't. The wear pattern is simply different than with a shoe.

And while pantographs don't dewire, they do have other things happen to them instead, like getting snagged and broken. And a pantograph is several times more expensive than a trolley pole to replace. It remains to be seen how often that will happen here in Toronto, but on a large system such as Melbourne's they are replacing one or two pantographs per week.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Melbourne's tram network is also 3x the size of the TTC streetcar network, and is markedly more complex, so 1-2 weekly pantograph replacements doesn't sound bad at face value, though I'm not sure where that number comes from.

If you're concerned about cost and "progress for progress' sake", I'd suggest you first consider why the TTC employs a full-time blacksmith to make streetcar parts for the old fleet.

Yarra-Trams-New-Tram-Network-Map-20111.jpg
 

felix123

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Melbourne also mixes and matches there streetcar manufacturers instead of sticking to a sole manufacturer.
That's true. Their current generation is Bombardier's Flexity (swift), built in-state with some parts coming from Germany. The idea is similar to the TTC's Bombardier Flexity supply chain, albeit the foreign assembly content is shipped from Germany and not Mexico.
 

robmausser

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It's not going to lower the repair and maintenance budget by any appreciable amount for a very long time, if at all.

It actually will, because the shoes on the trolly poles have to be replaced daily, and the pantographs last months, the trolly poles spray caustic materials onto the back of the streetcars, which deteriorates the paint and needs to be cleaned off daily, they wear down the overhead wire faster than pantographs, and the trolly poles dewiring at intersections cause damage over time to the overhead, needing repair.

The pantographs also work much better with icy conditions, which is a problem with trolly poles, as I'm sure everyone has experienced.

Also, currently the new streetcars have a restriction on the AC units along with a speed restriction with the trolly poles. They will be able to work full blast and the streetcar can operate at full speed with panto.

Trolly poles are a rarity, pantos are commonplace, which helps the TTC use parts that are common and thus cheaper through mass production.

Driverless cars are also around the corner, and it would be naive to think that driverless streetcars arent either. In fact they would be even easier to automate, since they are on tracks. You can't have trolly poles dewiring with a driverless vehicles. You need to reliability of a pantograph. Perhaps we could have waited to rewire the streetcar network for this, but its done now so we are ready for that change.

So its much more than just the fact that pantographs dewire much much less than trolly poles.

All these little things do add up.
 

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