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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

I'm sure the technology is pretty good, but the TTC's short-turning practices really need improvement. Which is to say, dumping full loads of passengers to turn a car simply shouldn't happen.

Turning a car because it is 'late' is a bad decision rule. The rule should look for gaps and turn cars to fill in gaps.

In Thursday's storm, I rode the 192 Rocket home from the Airport. The driver observed that he was an hour behind schedule - not surprising, considering conditions. What mattered is that the busses arrived as regularly as possible. A service where every vehicle is exactly one hour behind, but is moving well, has more passenger capacity than one where every second car is short-turned so that the cars pass the midpointt of the route 'on time'.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I'm sure the technology is pretty good, but the TTC's short-turning practices really need improvement. Which is to say, dumping full loads of passengers to turn a car simply shouldn't happen.

Turning a car because it is 'late' is a bad decision rule. The rule should look for gaps and turn cars to fill in gaps.

In Thursday's storm, I rode the 192 Rocket home from the Airport. The driver observed that he was an hour behind schedule - not surprising, considering conditions. What mattered is that the busses arrived as regularly as possible. A service where every vehicle is exactly one hour behind, but is moving well, has more passenger capacity than one where every second car is short-turned so that the cars pass the midpointt of the route 'on time'.

- Paul
Click to expand...

I'm not even a transit engineer and this makes sense and seems obvious.

Slavish adherence to anything (including schedules) is quite silly. What counts are results (like user experience).
 
TransitBart said:
I'm not even a transit engineer and this makes sense and seems obvious.

Slavish adherence to anything (including schedules) is quite silly. What counts are results (like user experience).
Click to expand...

The problem is that there are two sides to that coin.

Yes, the service on the street/experience to the rider is one.

But the other is operation, both in the sense of costs and the personnel. Some operators don't want or are unable to work past the end of their shift. And there's a cost in doing so as well, as you have to pay them overtime.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
The problem is that there are two sides to that coin.

Yes, the service on the street/experience to the rider is one.

But the other is operation, both in the sense of costs and the personnel. Some operators don't want or are unable to work past the end of their shift. And there's a cost in doing so as well, as you have to pay them overtime.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...

One would think that understanding that flexibility is required would come with the job. That being said, we have all worked with young parents (for example - who have to get to a small child)and that is a 2016 reality.

Also, restaurant owners don't throw out patrons in mid-bite when they are eating past closing time, and when I have worked customer service work, retail, waiting, phones, I have never cut someone off because of home time or break. Sometimes that comes with the role.

Where does the TTC conjure dozens of drivers from for an emergency subway shuttle?
 
Last edited:
smallspy said:
But the other is operation, both in the sense of costs and the personnel. Some operators don't want or are unable to work past the end of their shift. And there's a cost in doing so as well, as you have to pay them overtime.
Click to expand...

There will always be some level of short turning, and this is one of the reasons why. However, if an operator is on their last outbound trip but has fallen behind on their time, they can often be swapped out en route with an operator headed the other way, so they reach their end terminal on their approximate time. The whole passenger load doesn't have to be dumped out. TTC has the technology to figure out the intricacies of that kind of approach.

Stepping back a bit, what amazes me most is - we spend a billion dollars to buy a new fleet, and we agonise over every lost day in the delivery schedule, and then we agonise even further about whether TTC is putting these cars on the road as fully as they could. Then, when they get on the road, we are (comparatively) happy if they creep along. We don't seem to agonise anywhere near as much about how we might keep them moving.

We need a concerted strategy to remove the obstructions that slow streetcars down. (Hint: The most prevalent obstruction is a vehicle, holding only one passenger, that feels entitled to drive on the streetcar tracks.)

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
However, if an operator is on their last outbound trip but has fallen behind on their time, they can often be swapped out en route with an operator headed the other way, so they reach their end terminal on their approximate time.
Click to expand...

This past summer I was on a 510 northbound and we stopped at Bremner for about five minutes to swap operators; it was the same as when they bring in a new crew on the subway. So it's definitely doable.
One interesting thing I noted at the time was that the trip from Union to Bremner was very jerky: sudden stops, very rapid acceleration, etc. However, with the replacement operator the streetcar moved very smoothly at each stop and intersection, no more bouncing the passengers around. Some people have complained about these new streetcars but I've come to the conclusion that the streetcars are just fine, it's the operator that matters.
 
drum118 said:
You forget TTC is still in the 1900's for tech info to the point supervisors maybe out there, but are still doing page and pen today while the public is using nextbus. Look what Steve Munro was doing for raw data for various line that brought surprises to TTC who haven't a clue on doing this in the first place and still isn't when they should be.

Then, no one other than the driver has a clue what the ridership is on those cars being short turn to the point they shouldn't be in the first place since they are a sardine can in the first place.
Click to expand...

Sadly this is likely to be the case for a while going forward...there just isn't enough nerds to figure this out for every transit system in the world on a reliable basis...even if you do the job for a few years you still run into all sorts of edge cases and site specific issues...

What is really needed, is a system that just does it...automatically for all nextbus systems...(or other GPS enabled systems)....using some sort of machine learning, and customer centric feedback loops...nextbus is probably in the best position to do it, because they probably get more customer based feedback than the transit systems (they know when someone wants a bus, and then how long they wait for it...something most transit systems can only guess at)

What is needed is a way for transit systems to just be given suggestions in realtime on how to enhance their service...and the more data they provide the system, the better it gets at figuring it all out. This should happen at a macro and micro level (everything from, this route is low performing compared to this suggested route, or less service is needed in the evening to accomplish your ridership goals to switch drivers at this stop, so you don't have to pay overtime).

These systems should be public and then it would be obvious if the operators and systems are following best practices or not...
 
Did we actually miss the drama of another Flexity delivery? I'm hearing 4430 may be in Toronto already, and in the process of reaching Hillcrest.

- Paul
 
DSC said:
Some of us have already lost interest in the minutae of BBD Deliveries! Try it, you'll like it.
Click to expand...

Some of us haven't lost light of the fact that Bombardier still has not reached a delivery rate consistent with meeting their end of the contract.
Some of us care that the city gets what they paid for and that TTC riders get what they expected to arrive.
Just sayin'
 
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