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Red October
Senior Member
They're slowly killing themselves as a company.
crs1026
Superstar
This kind of reputational taint is very hard to erase, and it goes on for long after the corrective action has kicked in. Once it becomes easier for business writers to get ink out of "one more Bombardier screwup" stories, than to write balanced or mixed-review stories, that's what we will see. It takes some concerted effort and some new examples of true success to turn this around.
I'm not sorry to see the Bomb lambasted for its performance on these streetcar orders - that's richly deserved and is needed to put enough pressure on the company to correct its problems. I'm not so thrilled to think that Bombardier will be in the penalty box when new business opportunities come along. But then, it's only the local press running this stuff. ... so far, anyways.
- Paul
I'm not sorry to see the Bomb lambasted for its performance on these streetcar orders - that's richly deserved and is needed to put enough pressure on the company to correct its problems. I'm not so thrilled to think that Bombardier will be in the penalty box when new business opportunities come along. But then, it's only the local press running this stuff. ... so far, anyways.
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The title seems to suggest missing the LRV deadline caused them to suspect jet production. That doesn't make sense to me though, so I assume I'm misinterpreting the title.
ADRM
Senior Member
You're correct; it's a crappy headline. Bombardier's aerospace and transportation divisions are quite separate and aren't particularly connected to each other.
JJ's Trackside Rambles
New Member
UD2
Active Member
I'm always amazed by how Canadians are so ready to bombard one of their own companies for any mistakes that happen.
Would you rather bombardier went bankrupt and tens of thousands of jobs simply disappear?
As plane and train makers go, bombardier is surviving in a tough market where their competitors Boeing, Airbus, GE, Alstom, China State Railway, Siemens are all heavily backed by its governments through state and defense contracts. Bombardier receive the least subsidy of them all.
Cut this company some slack please.
Would you rather bombardier went bankrupt and tens of thousands of jobs simply disappear?
As plane and train makers go, bombardier is surviving in a tough market where their competitors Boeing, Airbus, GE, Alstom, China State Railway, Siemens are all heavily backed by its governments through state and defense contracts. Bombardier receive the least subsidy of them all.
Cut this company some slack please.
cplchanb
Senior Member
Well if they could reorganize emerge a better competitor I would definitely prefer they go chapter 11. It sucks but it's business. If they can't compete because they aren't operating well they need to change
UD2
Active Member
Bankruptcy doesn't help a company operate better lol. It's used to stop paying down debts.
dowlingm
Senior Member
lots of non-Canadian companies employ Canadians, and Bombardier Transportation is headquartered in Berlin.
cplchanb
Senior Member
Of course it do
You're right on that point but that's chapter 7. Chapter 11 forces companies to reorganize on top of settling their debt since banks and creditors will look for change in order to restore confidence. Usually a byproduct of a successful chapter 11 is a more efficient organization.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code
You're right on that point but that's chapter 7. Chapter 11 forces companies to reorganize on top of settling their debt since banks and creditors will look for change in order to restore confidence. Usually a byproduct of a successful chapter 11 is a more efficient organization.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11,_Title_11,_United_States_Code
dowlingm
Senior Member
pstogios
Senior Member
Let's see. I'm a Toronto taxpayer. What should I care more about: my hard-earned tax dollars being spent wisely, on products and services for the City with a company that can deliver on what was agreed upon, OR, creating jobs hundreds of kilometres away from me?
I think it's a pretty easy calculus and 99% of Toronto taxpayers would answer the former. We shouldn't care if this is a Canadian company or a Martian company. Give us what we paid for, when we expected it, or give us our money back and pay the penalties.
Furthermore, it's clear that this company is in existence only because of regular and significant taxpayer subsidies. Do you think that is a sign of a vibrant, thriving company?
In your world, what is the logical conclusion should we accept non-performance ("mistakes" as you call them) from any company contracted to do work for the public sector? Oh right - that logical conclusion is Greece.
UD2
Active Member
Let's put it this way.
Anything that the TTC builds recently is reliant upon funding from provincial and federal governments, which relies to business such as bombardier and its employees for taxation income. Bombardier going out of business means less taxation to provincial and federal governments, and more distributions in terms of unemployment benefit payments, which means less money to fund Toronto's transit.
They are giving you what you paid for, just a bit later, and they are paying late fees based on what's outlined in the contract. Maybe you should strive to overhaul city hall's legal team if you're not happy with what you're seeing in the contractual arrangements.
In general, they are delivering good products just a bit later due to production issues. If this is the first time you had relized that delays in manufacturing happen then I think you need to dabble a bit more into business. I get it, you're disappointed, but get over it.
If you want to pay for your subways, LRTs, streetcars purely out of you property taxes, then go ahead. But as along as you want other governments to help you, then think about Canada first. I don't want to pay for these things through my property taxes, and that is what I'm saying what I'm saying.
Also, in my logical world if everyone and orig got crucified for making a mistake the we won't be Canada, or Greece, or Mars, we'd be dead.
Anything that the TTC builds recently is reliant upon funding from provincial and federal governments, which relies to business such as bombardier and its employees for taxation income. Bombardier going out of business means less taxation to provincial and federal governments, and more distributions in terms of unemployment benefit payments, which means less money to fund Toronto's transit.
They are giving you what you paid for, just a bit later, and they are paying late fees based on what's outlined in the contract. Maybe you should strive to overhaul city hall's legal team if you're not happy with what you're seeing in the contractual arrangements.
In general, they are delivering good products just a bit later due to production issues. If this is the first time you had relized that delays in manufacturing happen then I think you need to dabble a bit more into business. I get it, you're disappointed, but get over it.
If you want to pay for your subways, LRTs, streetcars purely out of you property taxes, then go ahead. But as along as you want other governments to help you, then think about Canada first. I don't want to pay for these things through my property taxes, and that is what I'm saying what I'm saying.
Also, in my logical world if everyone and orig got crucified for making a mistake the we won't be Canada, or Greece, or Mars, we'd be dead.
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