TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is this any more than symbolic? I mean aren't most projects of any size funded by 3 levels of government? Do we really think the TTC would refuse Provincial and Federal money for future projects because the two senior levels refuse to bar BBD from the bidding?

At this point, no - but if B decided to pull out if it got sued, I am not sure how strong a case can be made against barring the company, Federal/Provincial support or otherwise. I'd end up looking bad for the funders to provide money to a firm that a) not only couldn't deliver on time but b) decided to pull out of a contract instead - that's truly awful optics.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

http://business.financialpost.com/n...sit-commission-contracts-as-soon-as-next-week

Bombardier could be barred from bidding in future TTC projects as early as next week.

With Siemens asking 50% more, I would be expecting the beancounters to be very upset.

 

[Tulse]

With Siemens asking 50% more, I would be expecting the beancounters to be very upset.

Is that 50% more for actual vehicles as opposed to the distinct lack of vehicles that Bombardier has provided? Because that might be an OK trade-off.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the Chief Executive Officer’s Report – October 2015 Update, at this link:

In a highly disappointing and completely unacceptable setback, Bombardier have discovered a further production problem that now means the year-end target of 20 vehicles in service is not going to be met. Instead, Bombardier state that a maximum of 16 vehicles can be delivered, the balance to be delivered and the back log (of these four cars) recovered by spring 2016.

The latest quality problem relates to incorrect crimping of electrical connections meaning that work on vehicles already on the production line needs to be stopped while wiring work is redone and checked.

Given previous delays and subsequent promises and assurances about the focus on quality going forward, this further delay is particularly galling and I have made it clear to Bombardier's CEO that this will not be tolerated.

While we will continue to act in our customers' interest by working with Bombardier to recover this delay, I recommend that the TTC takes every step at its disposal to recover additional costs incurred and to pursue the full extent of liquidated damages allowed for in the contract.

On a more positive note, we are finalizing discussions with the Leslie Barns contractor to achieve partial occupancy of this state-of-the-art new carhouse by the end of October.
​

On the other hand, there is a Board Request: Staff Review of Options to Exclude Bombardier from Future Bidding at this link.

 

[TOareaFan]

Is that 50% more for actual vehicles as opposed to the distinct lack of vehicles that Bombardier has provided? Because that might be an OK trade-off.

well, you don't pay for vehicles you don't receive....so not sure the point there.

 

[Inkarnate]

On the other hand, there is a Board Request: Staff Review of Options to Exclude Bombardier from Future Bidding at this link.

I hope they go through with it, seeing as Bombardier have been almost nothing but headaches.

 

[rbt]

Is that 50% more for actual vehicles as opposed to the distinct lack of vehicles that Bombardier has provided? Because that might be an OK trade-off.

Siemens LRT deliveries all seem to be close to on-time (within 6 months) though they've never handled a single order the size of the TTCs (most places order 10 to 20 units, not 200+). However, be happy you weren't waiting for your new HSR line to open cause those seem to regularly be late.

For hilarious solutions to transit problems (signalling system in this case), I think Edmonton wins:
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/08/...le-to-save-face-over-problem-plagued-lrt-line

 

[DSC]

This from the Staff Report to the TTC Board is interesting:

"Staff has no confidence that Bombardier can or will meet its latest estimate to have 16 vehicles in service by the end of 2015 as it has not received substantive information to support recovery, production, testing and commissioning plans.
TTC continues to incur costs based on the late delivery of the streetcars. As noted in the previously referred report (September 2015), the current TTC and Bombardier contract contains a provision for liquidated damages based on the late delivery of streetcars. The liquidated damages currently outstanding represent approximately $50M.
It is staff’s recommendation that a claim be commenced immediately against Bombardier for payment of the liquidated damages and/or other damages incurred by the TTC, including future additional maintenance costs relating to the existing streetcar fleet, service and customer impact costs, and additional TTC staff time. "

I think the TTC are somewhat pissed off!

 

[TheTigerMaster]

So apparently the project manager at Bombarider for the LFLRVs has been replaced 3 times! I can't believe a company as experienced as this can't seem to be able to find a competent manager!

 

[Admiral Beez]

So apparently the project manager at Bombarider for the LFLRVs has been replaced 3 times! I can't believe a company as experienced as this can't seem to be able to find a competent manager!

They may have quit three times. If I was a well respected manufacturing manager and was put in charge of a useless plant with useless management I'd be inclined to walk before my reputation was tarnished.

That's the problem when a company begins to falter in meeting customer commitments; your most experienced and expert team members start to bail, then the just-outs (recent grads) see this and the good ones start looking elsewhere; and soon you're left with the old and young who are bereft of skill or ambition to work any place else.

 

[Tulse]

well, you don't pay for vehicles you don't receive....so not sure the point there.

The point is that cheaper vehicles that don't actually arrive aren't actually cheaper.

 

[drum118]

So apparently the project manager at Bombarider for the LFLRVs has been replaced 3 times! I can't believe a company as experienced as this can't seem to be able to find a competent manager!

Maybe they have, but weren't willing to do what was needed with the suppliers as recommended by them.

The plant in Mexico has been a problem when they built the first car wrong like TTC order in 2000. The person who recommended this plant should have been shown the doors years ago, if they haven't already left the company.

It only take a supplier or 2 to screw things up Royal. Been there and done it.

 

[smallspy]

The plant in Mexico has been a problem when they built the first car wrong like TTC order in 2000. The person who recommended this plant should have been shown the doors years ago, if they haven't already left the company.

That's an interesting theory Drum. Too bad it doesn't hold out - that same factory has produced over 2000 locomotives under contract to EMD since 1998, and they seem to be fine. I've never heard of any other issues with any of the other products that they've built since then either, so perhaps the problem is that they're having trouble with the materials, rather than the product.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

There are photos out this morning of 4412 on flatcar and ready to depart Thunder Bay.

Where are they? Were they taken today?

There's some indication overnight of a mechanical issue with the flatcar that should be carrying it in Thunder Bay.

 

[cplchanb]

pics or it didnt happen