TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[TOareaFan]

This is how I feel about Bombardier. I really want to support them but the product is beyond lacking.

In what way is their product "beyond lacking"....I understand they have totally blown the delivery dates on this order but isn't the quality high? isn't the price very good? Are all of their products this far behind? Is the quality of the GO coaches sub par? How about the new subway cars?

Are their issues any worse than others in their business?

I really don't know but I get the feeling we may be extrapolating a really bad expeirience and projecting it over all their other rail products and I am not sure that is appropriate.

 

[sixrings]

I would think the fact that they keep missing their dates contributes to a product lacking appeal. Maybe you are right that the product is OK when I get it but that doesn't change the experience. Im not exactly thrilled when I go for fast food and it takes 10 minutes and that is a 10$ purchase. Sure my angus might be tasty but the whole ordeal makes me think twice about going back. I would think when we are talking about millions our expectations would be higher.

 

[TOareaFan]

I would think the fact that they keep missing their dates contributes to a product lacking appeal. Maybe you are right that the product is OK when I get it but that doesn't change the experience. Im not exactly thrilled when I go for fast food and it takes 10 minutes and that is a 10$ purchase. Sure my angus might be tasty but the whole ordeal makes me think twice about going back. I would think when we are talking about millions our expectations would be higher.

Like I said, yes we should be upset about the time it is taking to deliver this particular happy meal to the customer......but that is a long way from all their food is crap type statements. Not even sure all their combos take this long to get to the customer and some of them are, indeed, high quality meals.

 

[nfitz]

Which is better, that the streetcars are still trickling in one a month, with very high quality. Or would we prefer 5 a month with huge problems, because all constructed overseas without TTC presence in the plant.

 

[sixrings]

I would like the product on time with quality. Why are we making it a either or scenario.

 

[sixrings]

Like I said, yes we should be upset about the time it is taking to deliver this particular happy meal to the customer......but that is a long way from all their food is crap type statements. Not even sure all their combos take this long to get to the customer and some of them are, indeed, high quality meals.

Bu it isn't a extra 10 minutes we waiting for these streetcars, it more like a extra 10 months. I'm sur the blackberry priv Is a nice phone but it's about a year to late as well

 

[sixrings]

BTW I'm typing on my BlackBerry Z10. Look at the quality of the spell check

 

[nfitz]

I would like the product on time with quality. Why are we making it a either or scenario.

Because if we pull the plug, we'd be years away from seeing the 11th new streetcar - and no guarantees that wouldn't suffer same, or other issues.

BTW I'm typing on my BlackBerry Z10. Look at the quality of the spell check

Agreed. I have no idea how people write long emails on those funny phones where you have to tap on the screen to write long, detailed, professional emails, and they keep changing "borehole" to "brothel" without asking ... don't see issue with it being year late.

 

[sixrings]

im not saying pull the plug... im saying next time be open to outside bidders and let that be known loud and clear. Don't pretend to be open to outsiders which basically gets you no bids.

 

[crs1026]

Like I said, yes we should be upset about the time it is taking to deliver this particular happy meal to the customer......but that is a long way from all their food is crap type statements. Not even sure all their combos take this long to get to the customer and some of them are, indeed, high quality meals.

Pragmatically, the smart thing to do is make sure one gets fed, before one stomps out and swears to never eat there again. Leaving hungry makes no sense.

This level of non-performance certainly crosses into the territory of "business failure" as opposed to just a forgotten hamburger for a single client. I'm more worried than outraged - as noted, BBD is performing just fine with two other product lines at the same facility, and quite well on other products for other customers. What fell apart so dramatically here? Is it systemmic?

As to giving preference to Thunder Bay, it's like eating at an establishment where your kids work - guess who might get laid off if business suffers. And maybe they weren't working the day that your meal got missed, so do you really want to take this out on them?

I do think it's reasonable to apply the rule that dissatisfied customers don't return.... unless the business bends over backwards to recover the business. It would be totally naive to just accept an apology and forget the whole thing.....no pain, no gain. So I'm very interested to hear what BBD is prepared to do to restore the relationship...this should be more than a free Large soda. No tip, certainly, and dessert (at minimum) should be comp, and maybe a nice glass of wine too. And PLENTY of gift certificates. Or something.

And yes, fire the Process Manager....NOT a couple of token dishwashers.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

As for Bombardier... why aren't they putting more resources into solving the issues? Would it not cost less than dealing with penalties?

I would say yes. As the above posters indicate, Bombardier knows we're stuck, and their accountants would have included the possibility of fines in the original contract.

 

[nfitz]

I would say yes. As the above posters indicate, Bombardier knows we're stuck, and their accountants would have included the possibility of fines in the original contract.

TTC is suing for more than the penalty amounts. They seem to be going for damages above and beyond the contracted amounts.

Presumably suing the months and months of lies from Bombardier with falsified delivery schedules, and promises about 5-day builds as the basis.

 

[Admiral Beez]

TTC is suing for more than the penalty amounts. They seem to be going for damages above and beyond the contracted amounts.

I imagine the Toronto taxpayer will be paying a lot for the TTC's legal costs for any lawsuit. Unless the fines are substantial I still see us losing financially.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Déjà vu. From 1979. From link:

 

[Napoleon]

Which is better, that the streetcars are still trickling in one a month, with very high quality. Or would we prefer 5 a month with huge problems, because all constructed overseas without TTC presence in the plant.

Definitely a false dichotomy. The real problem is that if the streetcars trickle in at one a month, even with high quality, it will take over 11 years for them to finish delivering this order. The truly damning bit, is that there is zero sign of acceleration in the production thus far, despite multiple promises to the contrary. How can TTC planners possibly assume at this point that it will get any better? Maybe it will get worse?

TTC is suing for more than the penalty amounts. They seem to be going for damages above and beyond the contracted amounts.

Well no suits have been filed yet, so we'll have to wait to see if the board decides to sue. Hard to say how much of this is for leverage versus how much they actually want in damages.