TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[TOareaFan]

That does not mean that the car company is American however:

where in my post did I say the company had to be "American"....I said I would only buy cars from a company that had a production facility in Canada. Our two cars, just now, are both Toyotas......they replaced a Chrysler and a Ford....which replaced a Honda and a Chrysler....and so on.

"What could be more American than a Chevrolet Camaro? The answer might surprise you: A study by American University's Kogod School of Business found that the Toyota Camry (78.5%) and the Honda Accord (76%) both contain more domestic content than the Chevrolet Camaro (68%), which barely edges out the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (67.5%) and the Kia Sorento (67%)."

The only ones on that list that I would not consider buying are the Kia and the Hyundai.

 

[robmausser]

where in my post did I say the company had to be "American"....I said I would only buy cars from a company that had a production facility in Canada. Our two cars, just now, are both Toyotas......they replaced a Chrysler and a Ford....which replaced a Honda and a Chrysler....and so on.



The only ones on that list that I would not consider buying are the Kia and the Hyundai.

Whoa, cool your jets. I was not arguing with you, I just thought it was interesting to note.

Take a chill pill Toronto.

 

[Admiral Beez]

No jets need to be cooled IMO.

Below you made a nonsensical comment, and he was trying his best to reply without banging head against wall

That does not mean that the car company is American however:

I have to ask though, what was this comment meant to convey? Why did you choose American, and perhaps not China, India, Japan or any other random nation for the HQ for car companies?

If I say I prefer to buy furniture made in Canada, would you reply that some furniture is not made in Canada? Obviously furniture is made everywhere, but I've already specified that I prefer the Canadian-made variety. What purpose is served by replying that furniture is also made elsewhere?

 

[the lemur]

That does not mean that the car company is American however:

"What could be more American than a Chevrolet Camaro? The answer might surprise you: A study by American University's Kogod School of Business found that the Toyota Camry (78.5%) and the Honda Accord (76%) both contain more domestic content than the Chevrolet Camaro (68%), which barely edges out the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (67.5%) and the Kia Sorento (67%)."

GM closed its only Quebec plant in 2002 and promised that any new model bearing the name Camaro would be built in Canada. So production moved to Oshawa, but now GM is looking to move it back to the US, to Michigan. And when Camaro production first came to Canada, it was because of a plant being shut down in California. Swings and roundabouts. On some level, the money earned goes back to the parent company anyway.

 

[nfitz]

Certainly not how I buy my cars....at 53 years old I am very proud to say that I and my family have never been tempted to break the one rule that we have about cars ...."we will only buy cars from a company that manufactures cars in Canada" ...

Agree. I've walked out a VW dealership after I asked which ones are built in Canada and they said they were mostly from Mexico and the rest from Europe. (pre-Internet days ... so basic research was walk into the dealer).

I've never purchased a car that wasn't built in the GTA (or perhaps the outer GTA). It's not an absolute rule, but it's a huge factor. Quality has always been fine. No lemons yet.

 

[Tuscani01]

Meh, I drive a Mazda and swear by Mazda. Where it's made had/has no weight when buying a vehicle in my family.

 

[the lemur]

To get back to the streetcar issue ... this is really bad, isn't it?

If the TTC successfully sues Bombardier, then there's some compensation, but we're not likely to get the streetcars any sooner.

And if Bombardier's transit division shuts down or goes bankrupt, then what? A competitor isn't going to scoop up the manufacturing facilities and the contract just like that, right? Nor will the TTC be able to source an appropriate replacement vehicle for a long time. The LFLRVs we do have will be operating as a reminder of a future that's been cancelled.

 

[robmausser]

I have to ask though, what was this comment meant to convey?

It was meant to convey a parallel to the other comments on here that somehow choosing Bombardier, a Canadian company is the reason for the technical issues of the streetcar, the whole "close down thunder bay" and this rhetoric that it's the reason why there are these issues. When in fact, the issues are with the Mexican manufacturing plant that Bombardier is outsourcing the parts creation to.

That, simply because a company is Canadain/American/Japanese or whatever, that it is not "american made"

I was attempting to merge both the comment of the OP that I was replying to and the other people on this thread who seem to have a misunderstanding of the manufacturing process for these streetcars, but I guess that was lost on you.

 

[nfitz]

Meh, I drive a Mazda and swear by Mazda. Where it's made had/has no weight when buying a vehicle in my family.

When I first bought a car, it was a toss-up with Mazda and Honda. I'd been driving an inherited Mazda that was very good;but had had nightmarish dealer repair issues. I learned there are some very good Mazda dealership, but also some very bad ones. Mazda Canada doesn't (or at least didn't) have very much quality control over their dealerships.

More recently, the closure of the only (old) City of Toronto Mazda dealership has stopped me even considering them. I'm not driving to the suburbs to service my car; it's not convenient ... to then get to work after I drop it off. What's odd is that Honda and Toyota both have two dealership in central Toronto, near transit.

But we are way off Bombardier now ... can't see a proper car thread thought in General.

 

[Adjei]

Buying a car should not be based on whether it's made in Canada or not. It should be based on what gets the best value and your preferences. Where else do we extend this to? I mean should we only buy clothes made in Canada, cell phones made in Canada, or only food made in Canada. Good luck with that.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Where else do we extend this to? I mean should we only buy clothes made in Canada, cell phones made in Canada, or only food made in Canada. Good luck with that.

Imagine if we applied this to our personal relationships. I will only marry a woman conceived and born in Canada in order to support Canadian jobs in health care and obstetrics. Ridiculous. Now, will someone bring us back on topic?

 

[nfitz]

Buying a car should not be based on whether it's made in Canada or not. It should be based on what gets the best value and your preferences. Where else do we extend this to? I mean should we only buy clothes made in Canada, cell phones made in Canada, or only food made in Canada. Good luck with that.

Comes to a point, if no one buys anything built in Canada, we are all out of a job.

However, if all else is relatively equal, there's no reason not to make it (or at least the company at least having a presence in Canada) the deciding factor.

And to get back to topic - why should we drop $billion of dollars for a company to build us our streetcars in Mexico, where for a similar price, we can build them in Ontario and have a much better ability to monitor the quality.

 

[Admiral Beez]

And to get back to topic - why should we drop $billion of dollars for a company to build us our streetcars in Mexico, where for a similar price, we can build them in Ontario and have a much better ability to monitor the quality.

Is that the case though, we are assembling them here in Ontario and AFAIK it is quality of assembly that is slowing delivery to a trickle.

I agree, if we'd bought the streetcars from Siemens and they were constructed in Europe we'd have local unions and gov't opposition leaders complaining, same as this very similar case in the UK http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-the-german-factory-awarded-the-14billion-147805 But what we need is streetcars, not an employment scheme for Thunder Bay that delivers little.

 

[sixrings]

I use to be proud of Bombardier. Everytime I would be on a train I would look for their logo. Now it really is pathetic and I am embarrassed. I too like to support Canadian made things and don't see why no one else takes pride in buying things from Canada. But alas my Blackberry finally broke and I am at a loss what to do. I will say when Blackberry was a 8.5 and Apple was a 10 I could support Blackberry, but now that Blackberry is a subjective 5 it is hard to support them. This is how I feel about Bombardier. I really want to support them but the product is beyond lacking.

 

[Tuscani01]

When I first bought a car, it was a toss-up with Mazda and Honda. I'd been driving an inherited Mazda that was very good;but had had nightmarish dealer repair issues. I learned there are some very good Mazda dealership, but also some very bad ones. Mazda Canada doesn't (or at least didn't) have very much quality control over their dealerships.

More recently, the closure of the only (old) City of Toronto Mazda dealership has stopped me even considering them. I'm not driving to the suburbs to service my car; it's not convenient ... to then get to work after I drop it off. What's odd is that Honda and Toyota both have two dealership in central Toronto, near transit.

But we are way off Bombardier now ... can't see a proper car thread thought in General.

I have taken mine to a Mazda dealership once and never again. I have since found a reliable mechanic for complicated jobs, and just go to Canadian Tire for my oil changes and swapping my winter/summer tires (Plus CT stores the tires im not using on site, so I don't need to find a place to store them)

The car itself though has had no major issues, despite it being 10 years old and at 180,000km.



As for Bombardier... why aren't they putting more resources into solving the issues? Would it not cost less than dealing with penalties?