TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[ShonTron]

This policy has been in place for a quarter century but drivers rarely enforce it. I can't recall a time where a driver ever stopped a passenger to remind them that they should have a transfer. They really should have been, especially since Queen is the only route on the network with this policy. I don't know why anybody would be expecting TTC customers to give a damn about POP rules on Queen when the TTC itself doesn't care.

Why was the 501 even made a POP route? There must be a logical reason why Queen was made POP but the other high ridership routes (King, Spadina etc...) weren't.

Because Queen - unlike any other full-service streetcar route - does not have any fare-paid entrances into the subway system.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Because Queen - unlike any other full-service streetcar route - does not have any fare-paid entrances into the subway system.

What about King, College and Dundas? There aren't fare paid entrances at Queens Park, College, Dundas, St. Patrick, St. Andrew or King Stations.

 

[nfitz]

What about King, College and Dundas? There aren't fare paid entrances at Queens Park, College, Dundas, St. Patrick, St. Andrew or King Stations.

The King and Dundas cars have fare paid entrances at Dundas West and Broadview stations. College (Carlton) has a fare-paid entrance at Main Street station (and is a frequent visitor to Dundas West and Bathurst stations).

Will the inspectors tell a customer to get off the streetcar if they don't have POP?

Presumably it will be a mixture of warnings, removals, and $235 fines. I doubt they'd fine though, unless repeat offenders, or they were observed entering and not paying a fare.

Why was the 501 even made a POP route? There must be a logical reason why Queen was made POP but the other high ridership routes (King, Spadina etc...) weren't.

Because that is where the new streetcars primarily went, and it has no fare-paid stops.

 

[flonicky]

Why was the 501 even made a POP route? There must be a logical reason why Queen was made POP but the other high ridership routes (King, Spadina etc...) weren't.

Queen was made POP on a trial basis with the intention of making all of the routes POP. When the trial ended, Queen continued to be POP but it wasn't expanded to the other routes. I'm sure that says something about civic inertia.

 

[DSC]

Queen was made POP on a trial basis with the intention of making all of the routes POP. When the trial ended, Queen continued to be POP but it wasn't expanded to the other route. I'm sure that says something about civic inertia.

Yes, the timed transfers on St Clair were (are) also a 'test'. The TTC seems to forget that tests need to be evaluated and either ended or expanded. (Of course, the new Presto arrangements will be POP everywhere but no decision yet on whether timed transfers are to be extended too.)

 

[nfitz]

Yes, the timed transfers on St Clair were (are) also a 'test'. The TTC seems to forget that tests need to be evaluated and either ended or expanded. (Of course, the new Presto arrangements will be POP everywhere but no decision yet on whether timed transfers are to be extended too.)

They did vote to end the St. Clair trial in 2015, if timed transfers aren't expanded to the rest of the system.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Yes. If they do a fare inspection on 501 Queen and you don't have Proof of Payment, such as a valid transfer, you may be given a ticket. While admittedly it has been a rare occurrence in recent years to see anyone checking fares, TTC will be hiring quite a few new transit enforcement officers to check fares on streetcar routes, given that all routes will be POP in the coming years. More info on the current arrangement on Queen: http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp

I always take a transfer from the driver, even if I don't need it to transfer. Sometimes at station where I transfer from a bus, I take another transfer from the machine. Again, whether or not I will need it, I take a transfer.

Even with a pass, I will also take a transfer from the machine. Just in case. Better to show the transfer than a pass, after putting my pass out-of-sight for safekeeping.

 

[nfitz]

Even with a pass, I will also take a transfer from the machine. Just in case. Better to show the transfer than a pass, after putting my pass out-of-sight for safekeeping.

Have you had negative experiences in the past not "putting your pass out-of-sight for safekeeping"?

I'd think it more likely that you'd receive a fine for improperly using a transfer, than having something happen to your pass. It's pretty easy for transit enforcement to spot someone who uses a pass, and then heads and takes a transfer.

 

[drum118]

Have you had negative experiences in the past not "putting your pass out-of-sight for safekeeping"?

I'd think it more likely that you'd receive a fine for improperly using a transfer, than having something happen to your pass. It's pretty easy for transit enforcement to spot someone who uses a pass, and then heads and takes a transfer.

Transit enforcement would think the pass user is going to commit fraud by giving a transfer to a non payer down the line some where.

There is no need to get a transfer if you have a pass.

It has been stated time after time riders need to get a transfer if paying other than pass as proofed of payment regardless if you don't need a transfer in the first place.

Knowing Spadina, how is TTC going to collect fares on the new cars until the Presto system is working since a good portion of riders are making their first fare deposit to use the system?

The only thing I can see happen on these cars until the Presto is on line, there will be 2 collectors collecting the fares and giving out transfer. If so, there needs to be enforcement to protect the collectors from being rob and not sure how many collectors want to be put in that position in the first place to be rob considering TTC has known about the Nov date since last year.

 

[Molybdenum]

Knowing Spadina, how is TTC going to collect fares on the new cars until the Presto system is working since a good portion of riders are making their first fare deposit to use the system?

They could easily cordon off an unloading area on the Spadina Station streetcar platform and have a collector posted there, exactly the same as the arrangement at Union Station for the streetcars during the summer. Sure, some people will get free rides if they are only going between destinations on Spadina, but it likely be relatively few people.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I ride the 510 Spadina daily and between agree that there are relatively few people going to destinations between their stop and Spadina Station. I'd say that at the very least a quarter will get off.

Anyways the TTC has competent mechanics. If they want to I'm sure they can hack together a proper temporary fare collection box that an employee will monitor. No need to worry about them being robbed.

 

[Johnny Au]

I always take a transfer from the driver, even if I don't need it to transfer. Sometimes at station where I transfer from a bus, I take another transfer from the machine. Again, whether or not I will need it, I take a transfer.

Even with a pass, I will also take a transfer from the machine. Just in case. Better to show the transfer than a pass, after putting my pass out-of-sight for safekeeping.

I do the same; I take a transfer out of habit after inserting a token.

 

[Wrenkin]

This policy has been in place for a quarter century but drivers rarely enforce it. I can't recall a time where a driver ever stopped a passenger to remind them that they should have a transfer. They really should have been, especially since Queen is the only route on the network with this policy. I don't know why anybody would be expecting TTC customers to give a damn about POP rules on Queen when the TTC itself doesn't care.

It's not just 501 Queen. 502 and 503 are technically POP while on Queen, according to the linked website. I take the 502 reasonably often. I can't remember ever taking a transfer, or even having one foisted on me by a driver (apart from planned short-turns at Queen or Connaught).

 

[androiduk]

Jarvis & Carlton

 

[hawc]

I take the Carlton streetcar every day. Does this mean starting August 31st I'll be taking one of these daily?