TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Voltz]

The TTC will probably have the inspectors target passengers who get on at the last stop for this very reason.

The problem is that the inspectors will presumably be uniformed. If you get on the streetcar at the last stop and don't see an inspector on board, you've got yourself a free ride.

Or the inspectors could just camp out inside the station and check everyone as they are getting off the streetcar. By then it will be too late.

 

[ehlow]

Or the inspectors could just camp out inside the station and check everyone as they are getting off the streetcar. By then it will be too late.

I have the feeling they won't check at that point because it slows down the process of people getting off the vehicle. Maybe they'll quickly check when it's going into the tunnel but before people start leaving.

 

[innsertnamehere]

What's PNG?

Presto Next Generation.

Essentially PRESTO 2.0.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Or the inspectors could just camp out inside the station and check everyone as they are getting off the streetcar. By then it will be too late.

Honestly I don't think that would be worth their time.

The LFLRV has three doors. If there was only one inspector I'd just go out one of the two doors without an inspector.

They could get around this by placing an inspector at every door (or using one door). But does it really make any sense to have three inspectors at the station to catch maybe one or two persons who boarded at the last stop that may or may not have paid. And then there's the problem with increased dwell and alighting times. Especially during rush hour I would imagine that the 150+ customers on the LFLRV would be quite irritated to have several minutes added onto their trip times because the TTC wanted to target a person who may or may not have boarded at the final stop without paying.

This problem should be eliminated when presto is implemented system wide. Inspectors should be able to check for payment anywhere on the system. But they'd have to give the passenger the benefit of the doubt with POP and time based transfers.

 

[innsertnamehere]

From the Star article:



I guess since the driver is isolated I guess they can't have people actually paying on the vehicles.....my guess is that there will be a labour cost here as the only efficient way to combat fare evasion would be to have staff on the platform at each of the doorways checking that people have paid fare before they board.

Its Proof of Payment, which means they will have officers roaming the streetcars making sure everyone has paid their fare. Like how GO operates today.

 

[ehlow]

Yeah, from what I understand the point of POP is to avoid situations like that where customers are lining up to go either in or out of a vehicle and each one has to be checked. Slows down the whole operation.

 

[smallspy]

Yeah, from what I understand the point of POP is to avoid situations like that where customers are lining up to go either in or out of a vehicle and each one has to be checked. Slows down the whole operation.

The trick is to instill the fear that you could get checked at any point, any time. GO has done a very good job of this over the years.

The TTC: not so much. They'll have to work on improving it, and fast.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TOareaFan]

Its Proof of Payment, which means they will have officers roaming the streetcars making sure everyone has paid their fare. Like how GO operates today.

At full implementation....yes. But the very nature of this is an amendment/accommodation to a system that is years from full roll out.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Basically with a PoP system implemented including random GO-style inspections I think that the increase in revenue lost from fare evasion will probably be more than mitigated by increased capacity from all-door boarding and not having to wait as passengers pay at the door.

 

[TOareaFan]

Basically with a PoP system implemented including random GO-style inspections I think that the increase in revenue lost from fare evasion will probably be more than mitigated by increased capacity from all-door boarding and not having to wait as passengers pay at the door.

Yes....no one disputes the positive move to PoP....but TTC/Presto are a long way from implementation and in the meantime there will be interim measures.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Which is fine. Some Presto is better than none, and getting it at all on surface vehicles for the TTC will be a big step forward.

 

[rbt]

The TTC will probably have the inspectors target passengers who get on at the last stop for this very reason.

For the first couple of weeks I'm sure staff will be onboard all cars to show people how to use the ticket machine and make sure they know it exists.

Perhaps after that they'll cordon off the unloading platform periodically (perhaps 1 day per month) and check all passengers, not unlike Union Station during peak season. If the entire system is going POP, they'll be checking randomly.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Honestly I don't think that would be worth their time.

The LFLRV has three doors. If there was only one inspector I'd just go out one of the two doors without an inspector.

They could get around this by placing an inspector at every door (or using one door). But does it really make any sense to have three inspectors at the station to catch maybe one or two persons who boarded at the last stop that may or may not have paid. And then there's the problem with increased dwell and alighting times. Especially during rush hour I would imagine that the 150+ customers on the LFLRV would be quite irritated to have several minutes added onto their trip times because the TTC wanted to target a person who may or may not have boarded at the final stop without paying.

This problem should be eliminated when presto is implemented system wide. Inspectors should be able to check for payment anywhere on the system. But they'd have to give the passenger the benefit of the doubt with POP and time based transfers.

Four doors. When I've seen the inspectors on the 501 Queen, they are in pairs. I've seen them tell the driver to keep the doors closed as they walked through the streetcar to check for transfers or passes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

How would PRESTO improve things though? instead of checking a receipt that will be printed every time someone uses a token they have them tap their PRESTO card onto a handheld machine..

 

[cplchanb]

How would PRESTO improve things though? instead of checking a receipt that will be printed every time someone uses a token they have them tap their PRESTO card onto a handheld machine..

That's not.the point.the key about presto is fare integration so that you can use 1 card to get from a to b without continously paying with change or separate tickets. For commuters living outside of the 416 area myself.included, it's a major plus as I don't need loose change and I.get a discount too. Having it on their streetcars is their "first" step. Until then you can only dream of the rest of the surface fleet to get it.