TTC CLRV Streetcars: Where will they go once they are retired?

[robmausser]

One thing I don't like about the new streetcars is just how loud they are - at every stop, the loud announcement to look right and watch for passing vehicles, the loud, high-pitched beeps when the doors close. The CLRVs still in service are just so much quieter, and smoother-riding. The new vehicles are fully accessible, which is very important, but I wish the noises were a little softer.

Thats interesting because I find the normal operation, in between stops of the new streetcars to be quieter than the CLRV's. They glide silently on the tracks to the point that im caught off guard.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Cross post from the Streetcar Network thread:

Noticing that there were some discussions about future streetcar orders. I ventured onto Finland's Skoda-Transtech site to take a look at the marketing material for the ArcticTram after seeing videos of Helskinki's tram network.

http://www.transtech.fi/railway/low-floor_tram

What really piqued my interests is whether Skoda-Transtech would be interested in participating in bidding for the future TTC order(s) now that Alstom-Siemens is establishing a base here. The ArticTram seems well suited for our network albeit with some modifications. And they incorporated a traditional free-turning bogie/truck unlike all the rigid trucks that modern low-floor trams use.

ARTIC™ is excellently suited for tram track networks with several small-radius horizontal and vertical curves. To comply with current standards, the entire tram is equipped with a low floor. Thanks to its ingenious structure, the tram combines a full-length low floor with a traditional freely turning bogie under the car, similar to articulated trams.

The flexibility of the three stage suspension system and the articulation solution between car sections adapt to the shape of the tram track and maintain even wheel loads and good passenger comfort regardless of the condition of the tram track. The bogie structure efficiently dampens sharp shocks from the tram track, particularly in the winter. The tram runs smoothly and silently even in sharp curves and over switches, which have posed problems for traditional low-floor trams. This means that wear load on the track and wheels are minimal.

ARTIC™ takes the demanding climate conditions of the North into consideration. The carefully designed platform structure prevents the packing of snow and ice. The accumulation of moisture and condensation water into car structures has been eliminated with meticulous heat insulation and water barriers and moisture dissipation.

Technical Data:
http://www.transtech.fi/railway/low-floor_tram/technical_data

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artic_(tram)

Just some fun reading material for a Sunday evening.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1109651703278661632

 

[robmausser]

Cross post from the Streetcar Network thread:

Noticing that there were some discussions about future streetcar orders. I ventured onto Finland's Skoda-Transtech site to take a look at the marketing material for the ArcticTram after seeing videos of Helskinki's tram network.

http://www.transtech.fi/railway/low-floor_tram

What really piqued my interests is whether Skoda-Transtech would be interested in participating in bidding for the future TTC order(s) now that Alstom-Siemens is establishing a base here. The ArticTram seems well suited for our network albeit with some modifications. And they incorporated a traditional free-turning bogie/truck unlike all the rigid trucks that modern low-floor trams use.

Technical Data:
http://www.transtech.fi/railway/low-floor_tram/technical_data

Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artic_(tram)

Just some fun reading material for a Sunday evening.

Would only be possible if they came in 5 segment versions. The current size I see on that site is too small for Toronto.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Would only be possible if they came in 5 segment versions. The current size I see on that site is too small for Toronto.

That's to fit the Helsinki network. Just like there are different dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks around the world.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

That's to fit the Helsinki network. Just like there are different dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks around the world.

Well, we have the most ridiclous dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks because the people from the old age home in the TTC board don't want to change the track guage.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Well, we have the most ridiclous dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks because the people from the old age home in the TTC board don't want to change the track guage.

Many, many other transit agencies do not use standard (1,435 mm or 4 ft 8 1⁄2 in) track gauge, though many do. See Rapid transit track gauge at this link for a list.

 

[ShonTron]

Well, we have the most ridiclous dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks because the people from the old age home in the TTC board don't want to change the track guage.

Wait, what!?

The TTC's streetcar/subway gauge is really not important. Trucks can be re-gauged (this is how the TTC was able to buy used streetcars from five US cities, as well as sell PCCs to Philadelphia and San Francisco to deal with emergency shortages in both cities). Toronto's challenges have more to do with tight turning radii at track intersections, single-point switches (which I don't know why the TTC hasn't fixed yet), and the grade of the Bathurst Street hill at Davenport.

The TTC can buy anything without worrying much about gauge. It's the other constraints that are more important.

 

[nfitz]

Well, we have the most ridiclous dimensions for the Flexity Outlooks because the people from the old age home in the TTC board don't want to change the track guage.

You've been told many times by many people, that the small difference in track gauge is not an issue on vehicle selection (the tight curves and steep slopes are however).

Why do you persistently peddle this fiction?

 

[drum118]

One can change track gauge easy, but how do you run a network while doing so??
Who is going to pay for regauging the system as well buying right type of switches when most of it is less than 10 years old??
Where are you going to store and maintain rolling stock while the yard and carhouse are modify for the new gauge.
If TTC wasn't so along in rebuilding the system to the current standards when the issues arose about gauges years ago at a commissioner meeting, we would be changing to standard gauge today.

Track gauge plays a very small part for equipment selection, but its the centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius that does. Grade/slope play some part, but not close to centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius that does. We have to live with what we have, but need to look at increasing centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius where we can, but it needs to happen on new lines to be built.

Not a simple change over from one system to another,. Where do you expect TTC to find 100's of buses and drivers to bus the system for 3-5 years during the conversion, as well store and maintain them when TTC doesn't have the garages today to deal with the current bus fleet, let alone expand the bus system???

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

You've been told many times by many people, that the small difference in track gauge is not an issue on vehicle selection (the tight curves and steep slopes are however).

Why do you persistently peddle this fiction?

Well, I see your point, I don't peddle it. You are the one trying to question me everytime. I just think of as being a issue

One can change track gauge easy, but how do you run a network while doing so??
Who is going to pay for regauging the system as well buying right type of switches when most of it is less than 10 years old??
Where are you going to store and maintain rolling stock while the yard and carhouse are modify for the new gauge.
If TTC wasn't so along in rebuilding the system to the current standards when the issues arose about gauges years ago at a commissioner meeting, we would be changing to standard gauge today.

Track gauge plays a very small part for equipment selection, but its the centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius that does. Grade/slope play some part, but not close to centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius that does. We have to live with what we have, but need to look at increasing centre to centre of tracks and curbs radius where we can, but it needs to happen on new lines to be built.

Not a simple change over from one system to another,. Where do you expect TTC to find 100's of buses and drivers to bus the system for 3-5 years during the conversion, as well store and maintain them when TTC doesn't have the garages today to deal with the current bus fleet, let alone expand the bus system???

Well, maybe not for now. Just leave it, but in the future when the bus shortage lessens, but after all, you never know what will happen.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Consider this.

The CLRV's were built 1977-1981.

Diesel buses have a life span of 12 years.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Consider this.

The CLRV's were built 1977-1981.

Diesel buses have a life span of 12 years.

No, TTC keeps there's typically for 14, and almost all streetcars TTC have ever owned have lasted to 40.

 

[drum118]

March 22
Sad look at Russell Yard

 

[ShonTron]

March 22
Sad look at Russell Yard

Reminds me of the photos of Wychwood Barns in the 1980s and early 1990s, when its last TTC function was storing dead PCCs and trolley buses.