TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[crs1026]

There's no ridership at Sherway Gardens. A shopping mall only creates so much employment, and it's not much of a peak. It's quiet before 10AM and it dies after about 7 PM. The stores at Sherway are upscale and it will be a long time before the customer base is anything other than car-centric. And the area north of Sherway is just big-box stores, which again have low density of trip generation. Not many people buy their 2x4's at Home Depot and bring them home on the subway.

As for through ridership from Mississauga, there is much more at/above Dundas than down at the Queensway.

- Paul

 

[jcam]

The spur for Obico was bought by Metrolinx, but it's not clear it included the yard. Scarborough subway extension = new signal system = new trains = new yard.

If they do build a yard at Obico, getting the tracks there would indeed be halfway to Sherway. It would be a short shot to Sherway (much like Downsview/Sheppard West was from Wilson).

 

[toaster29]

I do think people like to delegitimize the notion of shopping centres as points of interests, and destinations, because they see them as not being urban enough, or going against some of the principles of urban planning. People want to go to shopping malls, whether we like it or not, particularly those without cars who can get everything in one place.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I do think people like to delegitimize the notion of shopping centres as points of interests, and destinations, because they see them as not being urban enough, or going against some of the principles of urban planning. People want to go to shopping malls, whether we like it or not, particularly those without cars who can get everything in one place.

Shopping malls are some of the most urban places you can find in North America!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Sherway Gardens wants to be like Yorkdale. The ridership for Yorkdale was around 34,160 on an average weekday in 2014. See link.

 

[44 North]

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...07/Feb_27_2007/Other/Cost_of_Updating_Blo.jsp

It mentions that an Environmental Assessment was done in 1993, and also :

"The cost of preparing the full EA, which includes alternative alignments, is estimated to be $3M. The order of magnitude capital cost estimate is $1B ($2007) for a subway extension to Queensway/West Mall and $1.5B for an extension to Dixie, assuming an underground alignment.

The EA is estimated to take up to 24 months from time of funding approval. This period includes approval of the EA Terms of Reference and submission of the report to the Minister of the Environment. The Provincial review period is mandated to be 6 months after submission."

I'm not sure if that EA was ever approved in 2007, if it was, couldn't it simply just be updated, instead of doing a completely new one?

Cool, thx. According to TransitToronto a B/D extension to Sherway (as part of the Liberal's late 80s/early 90s Let's Move program) was to cost $250-450M and would be "the easiest proposal to implement". Wonder what the ridership projections were.

I honestly can't see a case being made for it now. If however the line operated as a 4-car subway using mostly single-track (at/above grade), then maybe. Or perhaps splitting B/D into two branches west of Kipling, with one going NW and the other SW...

 

[vic]

Cool, thx. According to TransitToronto a B/D extension to Sherway (as part of the Liberal's late 80s/early 90s Let's Move program) was to cost $250-450M and would be "the easiest proposal to implement". Wonder what the ridership projections were.

I honestly can't see a case being made for it now. If however the line operated as a 4-car subway using mostly single-track (at/above grade), then maybe. Or perhaps splitting B/D into two branches west of Kipling, with one going NW and the other SW...

Just throwing this out there....but if we're branching, how about several LRTs branching out from the end of that line: Sherway, Dundas, Mississauga City Center (via Burnhamthorpe?), and something going north.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Just throwing this out there....but if we're branching, how about several LRTs branching out from the end of that line: Sherway, Dundas, Mississauga City Center (via Burnhamthorpe?), and something going north.

The Queensway LRT can connect to Sunnyside (future DRL station I hope?) in the east and the Bloor subway in the west, via Sherway.

 

[44 North]

Just throwing this out there....but if we're branching, how about several LRTs branching out from the end of that line: Sherway, Dundas, Mississauga City Center (via Burnhamthorpe?), and something going north.

Probably more logical. I'm more than open to creating a permanent terminus for 6-car heavy rail subways and transitioning to lighter, subway-like modes. But I guess what type of "LRT" are you thinking. Fully grade-separated lines providing identical/better service than a subway, or more of an in-median tram type of thing?

 

[salsa]

Here's an aerial shot of where the proposed subway would terminate. Image by @Jasonzed

 

[LNahid2000]

Here's an aerial shot of where the proposed subway would terminate. Image by @Jasonzed


View attachment 81180

Looks a lot like Scarborough Town Centre.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Looks a lot like Scarborough Town Centre.

Except that it is undergoing revitalization, development and intensification, unlike STC.

There is good reason it will continue to do so in the future. There is a master plan in place for Sherway Gardens, and the private sector seems to be interested, unlike at STC. And this is without any rapid transit.

 

[44 North]

Looks a lot like Scarborough Town Centre.

It's funny that from above almost all the suburban malls look identical. One of the reasons I continually revere the Eaton Centre. But I do love the green roof additions to these malls (not to mention the gradual urbanization attempts being seen). Just the small touch of greenery makes a huge difference IMO.

 

[salsa]

I'm not necessarily supportive of this extension, but I have to address a few points.

There's no ridership at Sherway Gardens. A shopping mall only creates so much employment, and it's not much of a peak. It's quiet before 10AM and it dies after about 7 PM. The stores at Sherway are upscale and it will be a long time before the customer base is anything other than car-centric. And the area north of Sherway is just big-box stores, which again have low density of trip generation.

That may be the case today, but the city has plans to intensify the area even without the subway.

Not many people buy their 2x4's at Home Depot and bring them home on the subway.

Not many people go to malls just to do their Home Depot shopping. Also, Yorkdale is the busiest station on the Spadina line (aside from Downsview).

As for through ridership from Mississauga, there is much more at/above Dundas than down at the Queensway.

True, and there will be at least one new station near Dundas along the way. Just because the extension goes to Sherway doesn't mean the buses on Dundas won't have access to the subway.

 

[Steve X]

Except the area is designed for cars not transit. You got the 427 and QEW right there plus the super wide Queensway. Unless the six point (Etobicoke) core becomes job intensified, this extension would have very low ridership. The subway ride here to downtown is about 45 minutes. A bus ride to Long Branch and taking the GO would be much faster.