TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[scamander24]

Haven't seen a GO train use the 3rd track at Erindale Station close to 5 years or more. Some of that had to do with the rebuilding of the station.

I commute via Erindale every day, and the third track has been used quite often for the past several months. Every train I've used has been on the third track except for a few evening trips which arrived at Erindale on the second track. Also, the northernmost track at Kipling is sometimes used in the mornings. This is definitely a change from about 8 months ago, when the GO trains used the second track pretty much exclusively.

 

[drum118]

I commute via Erindale every day, and the third track has been used quite often for the past several months. Every train I've used has been on the third track except for a few evening trips which arrived at Erindale on the second track. Also, the northernmost track at Kipling is sometimes used in the mornings. This is definitely a change from about 8 months ago, when the GO trains used the second track pretty much exclusively.

I haven't looked at the line in most place in the last year, but I know of various changes taking place these days.

Have rarely look at the Milton line in the am, other than Kipling so I have no idea how the line works then.

With the completion of all the work at Erinale, the 3rd track is now free to use. CP has stop storing equipment on the 3rd track at Kipling like in the past and it free up that track there for GO to use more than the past. Can't speak on the 2 other stations with the 3rd track as I haven't been to them in years.

Maybe Metrolinx has put their foot down on those 3rd track location so GO can use them more than the past, but you still got the bottle neck between the missing sections of the 3rd track.

 

[CDL.TO]

The conclusion seems to be that you build the Hub correctly at 427 now, or chose the inferior Kipling plan that Metrolinx prefers.

Bingo.

The owner of the abandoned Honeydale Mall offered free land for the station and bus terminal a few years back.

GO has other existing bus terminals at Scarborough Centre, Yorkdale, York Mills... all very quick and easy to get off the highway and back on again. Kipling will be the "odd man out" requiring a 2km drive down an arterial road with congestion and traffic lights.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

The conclusion seems to be that you build the Hub correctly at 427 now, or chose the inferior Kipling plan that Metrolinx prefers.

Bingo.

The owner of the abandoned Honeydale Mall offered free land for the station and bus terminal a few years back.

GO has other existing bus terminals at Scarborough Centre, Yorkdale, York Mills... all very quick and easy to get off the highway and back on again. Kipling will be the "odd man out" requiring a 2km drive down an arterial road with congestion and traffic lights.

I think we can agree on this stark contrast of choices. It would be a small amount of time savings (~3-5 min), but multiply that by the amount of buses that use it now and add on GO buses that could use it, it would be a worthy investment.

Why wasn't this identified as a potential option by Metrolinx?

 

[CDL.TO]

I think we can agree on this stark contrast of choices. It would be a small amount of time savings (~3-5 min), but multiply that by the amount of buses that use it now and add on GO buses that could use it, it would be a worthy investment.

Why wasn't this identified as a potential option by Metrolinx?

With dedicated 427 on-off ramps (Not a crazy idea, btw. Common in a lot of places, including a bunch of examples in Ottawa. Just think of it as a really short extension of the Mississauga Transitway), I would wager that the actual time savings for thousands of bus passengers a day (including the 192 Airport Rocket) could actually be consistently over 5 minutes per trip.

IMO, Metrolinx didn't identify it as an option because nether Toronto nor Mississauga asked for it. As has been mentioned lots of times in the past, The Big Move plan is pretty much just a collection of projects municipalities asked for.

 

[JasonParis]

I totally agree. If Toronto-Mississauga had been asking for this, Toronto-Mississauga would likely be getting this (at least eventually).

 

[drum118]

If you look at the Big Move map, you will see the Gateway Hub is at Cloverdale, not Kipling.

Metrolinx know that the Kipling hub should be built at Cloverdale, but the extension of the 2 line to it is a Toronto issue with Toronto having no money to do it.

Mississauga is in a poor place to ask for anything since Toronto call the shots how they can run their buses in Toronto. How many times has Mississauga been force out of Islington over the years as well having to cut the number of buses on some routes that run on Toronto roads cause by NIMBY folks??

The 14 bay terminal is only good for about 10 years, but like TTC Kipling Bus Terminal, there is no room for expansion for them.

Time for Metrolinx think about the big picture and built the Gateway Hub right even if it cost $600 Million more by extending the 2 line to it.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe Metrolinx should build it's own tracks instead of waiting to buy existing tracks, and plus those tracks would be for transit only.

 

[BurlOak]

According to this photo I shot, the building is a few feet from the corridor fence. I couldn't get a shot of that area due to various thing, mostly trees.

There is no issues for the west side of the old CT land. Again maps and plans show something different that what there in real life.

I paid a short visit to this area West of Kipling Station, and there is indeed a parking garage that does not show up on the City of Toronto InView map. (the above photo is showing east of the parking garage. to the south, there is a high (6m+) wall from the garage, then two rows of gabion basket for scour protection, and about 4m of ditch). It has been there for quite a while, so it is not new construction - most likely original. Just the maps are wrong. A rough estimate gives about 6m from parking garage wall to the north-most GO tracks.

• My first thought was that there is no room to extend the line at-grade, thus making it cost prohibitive and thus not worthy of farther discussion.
• My next thought was to have a single track through this area - maybe with only half the trains reaching the 427 station.
• My next thought was to expropriate part of the underground garage and rebuild the south wall maybe 4m farther north - perhaps eliminate a row of parking.
• Finally, after a few weeks, I have found a solution that should work. I thought about the 401 basketweave, and a similar rigid frame structure near Pearson. Then I thought about some GO crossover tracks and stacked subway tunnels. The solution was to have a long box culvert, with the WB tracks rising west of Kipling to go on top of this culvert. The EB tracks drop west of Kipling and go through the culvert. This way, only only about 4m of space are needed past this property - and this space does exist. Beyond the culverts, with the assistance of long retaining walls, the tracks would become parallel.

(orange line shows rough outline of underground garage).

 

[drum118]

That wall is part of the ramp to the 3 level of parking and you can't touch it.

I look at the north end which is the out ramp and you can't put in a inbound ramp or relocate parking from the south end there.

Also the north side of the out ramp has 2/3 levels of underground parking as well.

Also, you don't have enough grade area to slope the tracks to get underground even if you start from Kipling station. The grade would be well above TTC standards.

As much you want this, it not going to happen.

 

[BurlOak]

Also, you don't have enough grade area to slope the tracks to get underground even if you start from Kipling station. The grade would be well above TTC standards.

There is about 300m from the Station to where this stacked track area would be. I showed 1.5% grades for 200m to get 6m elevation difference between the 2 tracks.

I am quite sure that TTC can do 1.5%. Any railway can do that.

 

[Towered]

This was a hot topic on CFRB 1010 today - apparently councillor Carolyn Parrish in Mississauga is pushing to get the Hurontario LRT replaced by a westward extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway from Kipling to Square One.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Ugh, what's with politicians and steps backwards?

 

[Hopkins123]

No reason we can't build both:

 

[innsertnamehere]

How about no?

Fun fact: the distance from Kipling to Square one is roughly equal to the distance from Kipling to Spadina. That's right, we would essentially be doubling the bloor lines length on the west side.