News   Dec 12, 2019
 395     4 
News   Dec 12, 2019
 387     1 
News   Dec 12, 2019
 446     0 

Transit Fantasy Maps

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
1,513
I mean like this, it would poor planning to build a separate guideway 100m apart, and they couldn't justify it being built, especially when it's not serving any stops. This part could easily be interlined.
Not sure if we are talking interim or final.
  • Interim alignment here is for the King Line to come down from Scarborough and interline with the Ontario Line down Pape.
  • Ultimately, I think there will be enough riders coming down from Scarborough and down from Fairview, that there wouldn't be the capacity to interline through Thorncliffe. Creating an interchange station helps connectivity, so I took the opportunity to create one here. That is why I set up parallel tracks - it could also create a 4 track, 2 platform (southbound and northbound) station with a cross-platform transfer for travelling in the same general direction.
I don't see both lines being built so close to each other... if anything maybe keep the King line on Dufferin.
They are close for a very short stretch - mostly because that is a convenient lcoation for both lines to shift towards the northwest.
I see the Spadina leg of the Y-Line choking off a Dufferin subway routing. Essentially, the Dufferin subway would have to stop at Yorkdale, and it would provide no real added coverage. I chose it going over to Keele, but I could live with going through Mount Dennis to Jane and up Jane.

I like a lot of other ideas in the map though.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:

WislaHD

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
Reaction score
4,554
Location
Midtown Toronto
For Western Toronto.

1. The Ontario and King Lines cross again in the west (at Bathurst). I'm not convinced going to Exhibition is the best strategy - but it's not a terrible idea, and it provides an opportunity for an interchange station in the West. The King Line has stations on the Kitchener GO line, while the Ontario Line meets the LSE GO and Kitchener (@ Dundas West). The King Line is fully buried, while the Ontario Line may be elevated through Exhibition.

214925


2. Crossing Bloor, the two line fan out a bit. The King Line gets to Keele, following roughly Davenport to make the job west. The Ontario Line follows Dundas to Scarlett Road.
Not shown, but the King Line likely stops at Lawrence - possibly someday meeting the Sheppard Line at Sheppard/Keele. This whole thing would have to be buried.
The Ontario Line could switch from buried to being elevated at Scarlett/St. Clair and go up Scarlett, then Weston Road, and eventually Albion.

214927
I'm still more of a fan of sending the OL (in your scenario) to South Etobicoke. If the name of the game is supporting development potential, The Queensway corridor and Sherway Gardens is very attractive. Having both lines extend north of Bloor seems like a duplication of service.
 

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
1,513
I'm still more of a fan of sending the OL (in your scenario) to South Etobicoke. If the name of the game is supporting development potential, The Queensway corridor and Sherway Gardens is very attractive. Having both lines extend north of Bloor seems like a duplication of service.
I worry the Queensway route is too close to Bloor.
Could this run elevated along Queensway?
Would an elevated route beside the Gardiner (similar to Montreal REM) work?
Would elevated along Lakeshore be acceptable?
Is hitting Mimico or Humber shores important?
 

WislaHD

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
Reaction score
4,554
Location
Midtown Toronto
I worry the Queensway route is too close to Bloor.
Could this run elevated along Queensway?
Would an elevated route beside the Gardiner (similar to Montreal REM) work?
Would elevated along Lakeshore be acceptable?
Is hitting Mimico or Humber shores important?
Running elevated along the Gardiner works if the purpose was to intercept feeder routes. I don't think that is so important in this part of the city, and would be detrimental to fostering development along The Queensway. I would favour underground along The Queensway, I can't imagine it being as complicated or expensive of a tunnel as in Downtown Toronto. Elevated could work too.

Mimico has a GO station. There are alignment options that can hit both Humber Bay Shores and The Queensway, which I would welcome since I do believe it is an important node.
 

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
1,513
Running elevated along the Gardiner works if the purpose was to intercept feeder routes. I don't think that is so important in this part of the city, and would be detrimental to fostering development along The Queensway. I would favour underground along The Queensway, I can't imagine it being as complicated or expensive of a tunnel as in Downtown Toronto. Elevated could work too.

Mimico has a GO station. There are alignment options that can hit both Humber Bay Shores and The Queensway, which I would welcome since I do believe it is an important node.
I think I have too much work in the East in the 2030's (finished on 2040), and too much in the west the following decade. But here's the idea.
215358


215359
 

Attachments

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
1,513
Some details.

1) Downtown. The King Line would go up Dufferin - completely underground. The Ontario Line would follow close to the current alignment - but maybe immediately south of the Gardiner (instead of above the GO). Like I said before, as long the transfer is no worse that Union - City Hall bound passengers would transfer here. I cross the Ontario line (elevated) north of Gardiner for a Station at Sunnyside for transfers to/from major streetcar routes. It then crosses back to the south side.

215360


2) Farther North, the King Line basically switches from Dufferin to Weston Road at Davenport. Between Rogers and St. Clair, the line would move from underground to elevated - and stay that way for the rest of the route northwest. Interchange Station at Dufferin/Bloor, St. Clair and Mount Dennis - and with FWLRT (beyond this map). Continues over/beside GO corridor from St. Clair to almost 401. The one thing I'm maybe least happy with is that this parallels the GO corridor for about 6km - but that rail corridor does provide the opportunity to switch from underground to elevated.

215361


3) The Ontario Line continues West along the Lakeshore - I don't foresee any stations between Parkside and Humber Shores, which is a bit long at 3.5km. I thought about 2 Humber Shore stations, but that would maybe just be inconvenient for the majority of the people. The other thought was a stop at Sunnyside Beach, but again not sure if it's warranted.
The Ontario line take Mimico Creek to get up to the Queensway (there's no other convenient point farther west). Likely 5 stations on Queensway at about 1km spacing - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, East Mall, Sherway.

215362
 
Last edited:

44 North

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
3,229
Reaction score
1,516
Location
Ward 28
I think any line that goes along Queensway would have to be downsized to remain in the realm of possibility. So perhaps a two-car setup for accompanying two-car sized stations. Could still be part of the RL though, running along its downtown section. But as its own separate service. I'd even envision it going east and terminating at Hearn, cuz who knows what could be there in thirty years.
 

Johnny Au

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
5,392
Reaction score
900
Location
Near the North York, York, & Old Toronto tripoint


This is a really big thing I just did, and I'm so stoked that I finally can share it. This is a culmination of all sorts of ideas I've had of how to improve Toronto's public transit system. I'm not super happy about the formatting, but considering what I had, I think it gets the point across without having too many colours.

I originally planned to have an Albion-Wilson-Bathurst line and a Dufferin-Wilson-York Mills line, but I think this arrangement works better because few people would be travelling from end to end anyways, and it would be more convenient for riders if the lines travelled in a relatively consistent direction. I'm not thrilled about the Classic LRT line arrangement south of Bloor/east of Parkside, but my focus was more on unlocking development potential in the yellow belt for this map.

(Edited to re-upload a new version, because the old one had a misplaced label.)
The Rumsey stop could be used to serve Holland Bloorview as well.
 

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
3,953
Reaction score
1,281
3) The Ontario Line continues West along the Lakeshore - I don't foresee any stations between Parkside and Humber Shores, which is a bit long at 3.5km. I thought about 2 Humber Shore stations, but that would maybe just be inconvenient for the majority of the people. The other thought was a stop at Sunnyside Beach, but again not sure if it's warranted.
The Ontario line take Mimico Creek to get up to the Queensway (there's no other convenient point farther west). Likely 5 stations on Queensway at about 1km spacing - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, East Mall, Sherway.

View attachment 215362
[/QUOTE]

Assuming OL is build as planned, with the western terminus at the Exhibition and pointing west while being above ground, that will create a strong push to extend it further west using the LS West rail corridor, and then serve the southern Etobicoke. That's not necessarily the optimal extension, as the north-western options have their merits too, but the ease to build argument will be definitely in favor of continuing west on surface rather than ducking underground and making a relatively sharp turn.
 

WislaHD

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
Reaction score
4,554
Location
Midtown Toronto
3) The Ontario Line continues West along the Lakeshore - I don't foresee any stations between Parkside and Humber Shores, which is a bit long at 3.5km. I thought about 2 Humber Shore stations, but that would maybe just be inconvenient for the majority of the people. The other thought was a stop at Sunnyside Beach, but again not sure if it's warranted.
The Ontario line take Mimico Creek to get up to the Queensway (there's no other convenient point farther west). Likely 5 stations on Queensway at about 1km spacing - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, East Mall, Sherway.

215362
I think a station in Swansea/Sunnyside (at Windemere) is valid.

I am reposting this but years back I drew an alignment option with the focus being on coverage and limiting tight turns (though the Park Lawn turn may still be too tight). It might be a bit station heavy, I think one or both of the Park Lawn & Queesnway or Marine Parade Drive stations could be cut. That being said, the stop spacing is alright for subway standards.

HumberBayDRL.png

Otherwise, there is probably room for one Bessarion-esque station on The Queensway between Kipling and East Mall near the Ikea site, but City Planners really need to figure out if they can support conversion of industrial land for residential development there.
 

Rainforest

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
3,953
Reaction score
1,281
I think any line that goes along Queensway would have to be downsized to remain in the realm of possibility. So perhaps a two-car setup for accompanying two-car sized stations. Could still be part of the RL though, running along its downtown section. But as its own separate service. I'd even envision it going east and terminating at Hearn, cuz who knows what could be there in thirty years.
I don't think smaller trains can get a share of track time in the OL downtown tunnel.

They want to run at 90' headways to provide the required capacity. Probably won't entirely succeed and will have to accept 105' or 110' headways instead, and the capacity will drop from 34k to ~ 27 k. But, what happens if they allow smaller trains to take 1/3 of track time? The capacity will go down to 22 - 23 k, which is certainly too small.
 

Hopkins123

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
1,571
Reaction score
1,039
3) The Ontario Line continues West along the Lakeshore - I don't foresee any stations between Parkside and Humber Shores, which is a bit long at 3.5km. I thought about 2 Humber Shore stations, but that would maybe just be inconvenient for the majority of the people. The other thought was a stop at Sunnyside Beach, but again not sure if it's warranted.
The Ontario line take Mimico Creek to get up to the Queensway (there's no other convenient point farther west). Likely 5 stations on Queensway at about 1km spacing - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, East Mall, Sherway.

View attachment 215362

Assuming OL is build as planned, with the western terminus at the Exhibition and pointing west while being above ground, that will create a strong push to extend it further west using the LS West rail corridor, and then serve the southern Etobicoke. That's not necessarily the optimal extension, as the north-western options have their merits too, but the ease to build argument will be definitely in favor of continuing west on surface rather than ducking underground and making a relatively sharp turn.
There should be a stop at Windermere for the Swansea community.
 

BurlOak

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
5,828
Reaction score
1,513
I think any line that goes along Queensway would have to be downsized to remain in the realm of possibility. So perhaps a two-car setup for accompanying two-car sized stations. Could still be part of the RL though, running along its downtown section. But as its own separate service. I'd even envision it going east and terminating at Hearn, cuz who knows what could be there in thirty years.
I don't think smaller trains can get a share of track time in the OL downtown tunnel.

They want to run at 90' headways to provide the required capacity. Probably won't entirely succeed and will have to accept 105' or 110' headways instead, and the capacity will drop from 34k to ~ 27 k. But, what happens if they allow smaller trains to take 1/3 of track time? The capacity will go down to 22 - 23 k, which is certainly too small.
Y-Line and B-Line will use 150m long TTC subway, while the S-Line (Sheppard subway) will be converted to the same trains as the O-Line (Ontario Line) - mostly because they need to handle steep grades to become elevated West of Highway 404.
All trains on the S-Line, O-Line and K-Line would be 120m long for both the Ontario Line and the King Line. Perhaps until ridership reaches peak level, they would run somewhat smaller trains, but the design is for 120m.
Generally, everything in the Downtown is underground, while beyond that is all elevated (except for the legacy network that is already completed underground). The general rule of thumb is that major interchange stations are 2-track, 3-120m long platforms with Spanish Solution. Other underground stations are 120m long. Most elevated stations are 80m long, and the first two cars of the train don't stop at a platform West of Yonge (last 2 cars East of Yonge). The exceptions are STC and Centennial, which are just parallel tracks separated by about 75m, and Throncliffe which will have 4 tracks and 2 platforms with cross platform transfer - mainly due to the construction sequence.

215513
 

t54zhao

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
5
Reaction score
6
IDK what the right place to post this is, but how come the province doesn't do transit oriented development and zoning with regards to the GO Trains similar to how the Caltrain functions in the bay area?

In California, you get little downtowns clustered around these Caltrain stops like these examples from San Mateo, Palo Alto and Mountain View

216101
216102
216103


Put that in contrast with what we have around GO stops in Mississauga (Clarkson GO), Oakville , Milton, King City etc.

216104
216105
216106
216107
 

Top