Transit Fantasy Maps

[Midtown Urbanist]

Wicked. Is the teal line LRT or standard subway? Might agree with others about using a single cross-core tunnel with a 3-track setup. If there ever were enough funds to build two tunnels across downtown I think an idea worth considering would be to instead spread those extra funds towards grade-separating the centralist ~2km of the 504, 505, 506. Would provide a much-needed boost in speed/reliability/capacity for the legacy system.

The teal colour Dufferin-King line was designed as a subway. This map's original intention was in a fantasy world where we seceded from Ontario to form the Province of the Golden Horseshoe, and could use all the tax dollars collected from the region to invest back into our metro system. So in other words, unlimited funds scenario.

I just thought it was tangently related to that post from the Rail Deck Park thread and decided to screenshot and post it here. If the question was the most efficient use of funds, a single tunnel 3-track setup would be better as people have said thus far, not to mention higher frequency!

For the western leg of the RL Dufferin is definitely a good contender, but it does pass fairly close to U/S. I'm of the opinion that keeping a good spacing between lines and perhaps trying to follow a NW path could be beneficial. So perhaps some kind of combo using GTS-Keele-Dundas-Jane-Weston, etc. It'd make a good mirror of the eastern portion, somewhat equidistant to Line 1, and would create an effective flying U.

For the western leg of the Relief Line Keele/Parkside would be so much easier and cheaper to build and construct than going up Dufferin, Jane or Roncy/Dundas.

A year or so ago I would have agreed. Actually, I even dismissed sending the RL back up frequently saying it is better for it to go to Sunnyside instead to serve as a hub for GO-RER and WWLRT (something I still think is important, as shown by the Red line in the above map). I even considered the option of sending the Red line all the way to Humber Bay Shores to reach that high density neighbourhood.

However, in the past year we have had a series of developments that makes me begin to think that the Dufferin corridor is the best option.

• For starters, the Dufferin bus is the busiest bus route in the city and is currently overcapacity despite articulated buses.
  • Dufferin ridership as of 2014 is 44,000 a day.
• Reports from City Planning this spring has found that in addition to the Yonge line, the Spadina Subway will also be over-capacity by 2041. (I wish I can find the source again, @TheTigerMaster might know.)
  • I take this to mean that the Spadina line will need it's own relief line to the west.
• This year, plans for the Galleria Mall Redevelopment came forward. This project will add a great deal of density to the Dufferin corridor where the Dufferin Bus is already over-capacity when it reaches Dupont.
  • "A total of 3,416 residential units are proposed throughout the residential buildings"
• Then just this past month, we've found out about a massive redevelopment project at Bloor-Dufferin in the former TDSB lands.
  • We don't know plans for the site yet, but I think it is fair to expect very high densities similar to the Honest Ed's proposal, given how much the site sold for.
• The above two redevelopments makes me wonder about the future of Dufferin Mall.
• Finally, the Missing Link has had unprecedented development this year behind the scenes and may be more real than fiction after all. If the Missing Link is built and the Midtown corridor is freed up, then Dupont/Dufferin is ripe for a subway/GO-RER interchange.

I am pretty confident that the Dufferin corridor is ripe for rapid transit, more so than any other N-S corridor in the city barring Don Mills.

The one problem is what to do with the line once it reaches Eglinton, since Dufferin north of Eglinton is very close to Spadina line. Of course, an answer is that there is no need for an extension north of Eglinton. That is what I chose for terminus on the map above.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Quoting from the Rail Deck Park thread, as to not derail discussion.


In my fantasy maps, they usually look something like this:

View attachment 93923

Curious to see what @44 North is thinking of. But I think that it is his proposal for the DRL to branch south to the Portlands.

I'm not as big of a fan of that idea simply because it would be splitting service to either the core, or to the Danforth&Don Mills section, neither of which I think should have split service.

This is pretty nice for being done in google maps.

 

[Johnny Au]

The teal colour Dufferin-King line was designed as a subway. This map's original intention was in a fantasy world where we seceded from Ontario to form the Province of the Golden Horseshoe, and could use all the tax dollars collected from the region to invest back into our metro system. So in other words, unlimited funds scenario.

I just thought it was tangently related to that post from the Rail Deck Park thread and decided to screenshot and post it here. If the question was the most efficient use of funds, a single tunnel 3-track setup would be better as people have said thus far, not to mention higher frequency!




A year or so ago I would have agreed. Actually, I even dismissed sending the RL back up frequently saying it is better for it to go to Sunnyside instead to serve as a hub for GO-RER and WWLRT (something I still think is important, as shown by the Red line in the above map). I even considered the option of sending the Red line all the way to Humber Bay Shores to reach that high density neighbourhood.

However, in the past year we have had a series of developments that makes me begin to think that the Dufferin corridor is the best option.

• For starters, the Dufferin bus is the busiest bus route in the city and is currently overcapacity despite articulated buses.
  • Dufferin ridership as of 2014 is 44,000 a day.
• Reports from City Planning this spring has found that in addition to the Yonge line, the Spadina Subway will also be over-capacity by 2041. (I wish I can find the source again, @TheTigerMaster might know.)
  • I take this to mean that the Spadina line will need it's own relief line to the west.
• This year, plans for the Galleria Mall Redevelopment came forward. This project will add a great deal of density to the Dufferin corridor where the Dufferin Bus is already over-capacity when it reaches Dupont.
  • "A total of 3,416 residential units are proposed throughout the residential buildings"
• Then just this past month, we've found out about a massive redevelopment project at Bloor-Dufferin in the former TDSB lands.
  • We don't know plans for the site yet, but I think it is fair to expect very high densities similar to the Honest Ed's proposal, given how much the site sold for.
• The above two redevelopments makes me wonder about the future of Dufferin Mall.
• Finally, the Missing Link has had unprecedented development this year behind the scenes and may be more real than fiction after all. If the Missing Link is built and the Midtown corridor is freed up, then Dupont/Dufferin is ripe for a subway/GO-RER interchange.

I am pretty confident that the Dufferin corridor is ripe for rapid transit, more so than any other N-S corridor in the city barring Don Mills.

The one problem is what to do with the line once it reaches Eglinton, since Dufferin north of Eglinton is very close to Spadina line. Of course, an answer is that there is no need for an extension north of Eglinton. That is what I chose for terminus on the map above.

You forgot to mention new developments along Dufferin north of Eglinton, such as the Bean Condominiums, Briar Hill City Towns, the Columbus Centre redevelopment, Treviso Condos, an unnamed proposal replacing the plaza with Staples, various Yorkdale expansions, and the redevelopment of parking lot lands surrounding Wilson station.

The challenge with regards to construction include Dufferin being rather narrow between Dufferin Gate and Eglinton, as well as Dufferin being very hilly with many steep slopes between Eglinton and Dupont.

 

[sixrings]

I like dufferin for its bus ridership, condo proposals, it's one main north south street (vs a drl going off of a main route like upx) and yorkdale. I think though it needs more express stations such a yorkdale, Lawrence, eglinton, st. Clair, bloor and queen. I know most people see it as too close to the spadina line although I think that's really true only north of eglinton

 

[44 North]

For the western leg of the Relief Line Keele/Parkside would be so much easier and cheaper to build and construct than going up Dufferin, Jane or Roncy/Dundas.

Strafing High Park would be pretty good. I'm very keen on seeing a presentation of western routing options + ridership #s one day soon (but that's probably asking a lot). This is something we missed studying in the 80s.

Either way there's def lots of possibilities to choose from and nodes to be intersected. I think hitting Dundas West would be a good Line 2 interchange, ditto for Mt Dennis/Jane area with Line 5...but how good, and are there better options? We should definitely be considering an eventual NW terminus as part of the planning, seeing that significant surface ridership and demand is there *today*. Getting this RL to Weston then either along Rexdale or Albion should be on planners' minds while working on the central section. Using a diagonal when building rapid transit can be a big improvement for travel, and there's some great corridor options to accomplish this.

A year or so ago I would have agreed. Actually, I even dismissed sending the RL back up frequently saying it is better for it to go to Sunnyside instead to serve as a hub for GO-RER and WWLRT (something I still think is important, as shown by the Red line in the above map). I even considered the option of sending the Red line all the way to Humber Bay Shores to reach that high density neighbourhood.

However, in the past year we have had a series of developments that makes me begin to think that the Dufferin corridor is the best option.

• For starters, the Dufferin bus is the busiest bus route in the city and is currently overcapacity despite articulated buses.
  • Dufferin ridership as of 2014 is 44,000 a day.
• Reports from City Planning this spring has found that in addition to the Yonge line, the Spadina Subway will also be over-capacity by 2041. (I wish I can find the source again, @TheTigerMaster might know.)
  • I take this to mean that the Spadina line will need it's own relief line to the west.
• This year, plans for the Galleria Mall Redevelopment came forward. This project will add a great deal of density to the Dufferin corridor where the Dufferin Bus is already over-capacity when it reaches Dupont.
  • "A total of 3,416 residential units are proposed throughout the residential buildings"
• Then just this past month, we've found out about a massive redevelopment project at Bloor-Dufferin in the former TDSB lands.
  • We don't know plans for the site yet, but I think it is fair to expect very high densities similar to the Honest Ed's proposal, given how much the site sold for.
• The above two redevelopments makes me wonder about the future of Dufferin Mall.
• Finally, the Missing Link has had unprecedented development this year behind the scenes and may be more real than fiction after all. If the Missing Link is built and the Midtown corridor is freed up, then Dupont/Dufferin is ripe for a subway/GO-RER interchange.

I am pretty confident that the Dufferin corridor is ripe for rapid transit, more so than any other N-S corridor in the city barring Don Mills.

You definitely make a case for Dufferin. The high present-day ridership being the best indicator. Still though I'm thinking of the Jane LRT. Just like the Don Mills LRT it never would've worked south of Eglinton. Road is too narrow and intersections too numerous. And just like how it's a no-brainer that key parts of the Don Mills LRT be replaced with the RL, I think we should do the same with Jane. Not necessarily along all of Jane, but skirting within or along its catchment around Eglinton. This is one reason why I like Keele/Weston.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Ahaha, I just had a crazy idea.

Let's close the loop. Extend Sheppard subway west of Yonge to Sheppard West Station, then send it down Dufferin. Toronto's very own Ring Subway Line!



Some of you are already suggesting going all the way to Yorkdale. That puts us less than 3km from Sheppard West.

 

[jcam]

Ahaha, I just had a crazy idea.

Let's close the loop. Extend Sheppard subway west of Yonge to Sheppard West Station, then send it down Dufferin. Toronto's very own Ring Subway Line!

View attachment 94144

Some of you are already suggesting going all the way to Yorkdale. That puts us less than 3km from Sheppard West.

I prefer the ring line using Jane....it's already one of the busiest bus routes, so merge it into the Jane LRT concept

 

[sixrings]

Ahaha, I just had a crazy idea.

Let's close the loop. Extend Sheppard subway west of Yonge to Sheppard West Station, then send it down Dufferin. Toronto's very own Ring Subway Line!

View attachment 94144

Some of you are already suggesting going all the way to Yorkdale. That puts us less than 3km from Sheppard West.

considering some think that the sheppard line would need to link to the Wilson yard this isn't that crazy... its been proposed years on a thread like this or skyscrapercity.com before

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I prefer the ring line using Jane....it's already one of the busiest bus routes, so merge it into the Jane LRT concept

I am seeing Jane mentioned a lot, and it indeed has the ridership numbers.

But on a point-to-point comparison with Dufferin, is Jane really that more attractive?

Jane & St. Clair is straddling a rail corridor and has very minimal redevelopment potential, while Dufferin & St. Clair is in the heart of Corso Italia.

Jane & Eglinton is in the Eglinton Flats, there is zero redevelopment potential, compared to Dufferin & Eglinton, where there is plenty.

Jane & Lawrence nad Dufferin & Lawrence are fairly comparable, but I would say that Dufferin street between Eglinton and Lawrence has significant redevelopment potential while Jane has just some.

North of Lawrence, on Dufferin there is Yorkdale Mall. Jane has to travel another 6km to reach Jane&Finch neighbourhood, which will be connected with FWLRT anyway. Unless the idea is to veer to the west and reach the apartment complexes on Dixon?

My prediction: Jane bus ridership will change significantly after FWLRT and Egliton Crosstown opens. Jane&Finch area residents will travel east on FWLRT to Spadina, while the rest of Jane ridership will be cut in half as buses detour to Mt. Dennis. So maybe we will have to wait untill ~2022 to know what to do with Jane.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Ahaha, I just had a crazy idea.

Let's close the loop. Extend Sheppard subway west of Yonge to Sheppard West Station, then send it down Dufferin. Toronto's very own Ring Subway Line!

View attachment 94144

Some of you are already suggesting going all the way to Yorkdale. That puts us less than 3km from Sheppard West.

LOL I love these maps, how are you doing this.

I like the Dufferin idea. That's a route that needs better service.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

LOL I love these maps, how are you doing this.

I like the Dufferin idea. That's a route that needs better service.

At this point I may as well just publish the Google Map. Here it is.

It is incomplete, I haven't figured out yet how to model Crosstown East or West, what to do with Scarborough Subway, and not to mention the GO-RER corridors.

I'm not sure yet how to rate Google Maps for fantasy transit map drawing. It is nice end result, but kind of clumsy to work with, and not many options.

 

[jcam]

Jane & St. Clair is straddling a rail corridor and has very minimal redevelopment potential, while Dufferin & St. Clair is in the heart of Corso Italia.

If the missing link came to pass, and CP sold off the Lambton yard, then you'd need between 2-4 tracks for Milton/Midtown GO RER service....that leaves a significant amount of property fronting St. Clair and Dundas that could be developed/redeveloped. The parcels would have much higher ability for intensification than Dufferin/St. Clair.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

At this point I may as well just publish the Google Map. Here it is.

It is incomplete, I haven't figured out yet how to model Crosstown East or West, what to do with Scarborough Subway, and not to mention the GO-RER corridors.

I'm not sure yet how to rate Google Maps for fantasy transit map drawing. It is nice end result, but kind of clumsy to work with, and not many options.

Thanks!
I think maybe you should try crosstown west on Dixon Rd and see how it looks. For east, leave it the same. Extend the Bloor subway to Square too. I think Paint.net or Photoshop is better but I'm not good at drawing at all so what would I know

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I think Paint.net or Photoshop is better but I'm not good at drawing at all so what would I know

I've been using Paint.Net all this time. Honestly, I want to learn how to use Adobe Illustrator better, as there is how you can make very nice images. (One project I have on my mind for Illustrator is depicting an expanded PATH system)

But if you don't feel artistically inclined, Google Maps is very mechanical. Just requires a tedious number of 'pointing-and-clicking' if you are doing anything besides a straight line.

 

[Hopkins123]

Since the Fantasy Thread is so active today, I debut this:



Having the DRL follow Parkside/Keele/Weston-Galt/Highway 27 to Humber College would bring transformative change to the northwestern segment of the City. I also include a Bloor-Danforth extension to Celebration Square, because why not.