Transit Fantasy Maps

[TransitBart]

Was playing around with to-scale vector maps for the subway/metro systems of a few cities (Montreal, Chicago, NYC). Originally was going to rotate the networks to fit over TO, but decided it looks better and more identifiable to rotate TO and keep the networks' orientation as-is. Particularly for NYC's unique madness. For fun:

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Brilliant. I have wanted to see the NYC network superimposed for scale. I know that from our waterfront to Eglinton is approx the same distance as Battery Park to Midtown / 59th St.

 

[TransitBart]

If we elevated, then we could build the subway to Mississauga if we wanted to.

But elevated is a dirty word in Toronto.

Why do you say that?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Was playing around with to-scale vector maps for the subway/metro systems of a few cities (Montreal, Chicago, NYC). Originally was going to rotate the networks to fit over TO, but decided it looks better and more identifiable to rotate TO and keep the networks' orientation as-is. Particularly for NYC's unique madness. For fun:

View attachment 91556
View attachment 91557 View attachment 91558

This makes me sad. Please don't do this again.

 

[WislaHD]

Why do you say that?

I am hyperbole-ing a bit, but it is because that is the reaction whenever it is brought up officially. People don't like the 'disturbance' elevated transit provides. So much so, that it isn't even mentioned as a possibility in Scarborough or on Eglinton.

The Spadina line itself could have been done much cheaper elevated, surely, but we went with the tunnelled option.

 

[Hopkins123]

This makes me sad. Please don't do this again.

If only we had a time machine and could go back to the 1890s and start building out lines from then.

 

[vic]

Well, suppose the Hurontario-Main LRT is only built from Square One Terminal northwards into Brampton. That was announced in the news before. That leaves the southern half vacant. While it wouldn't result in a one-seat ride for commuters starting in Brampton and heading to the Lakeshore Line, it does recognize the busiest segment of the Hurontario corridor requires higher-order grade-separated rapid transit.

A subway to Square One/Mississauga City Centre would bring transformative change to the area, leaves the Dundas corridor alone to support a crosstown interregional one-seat BRT line, and no diversion of the Milton GO tracks to have to serve Square One (which likely would be as expensive as building a subway without as many benefits). GO should be complimentary to local transit not act as a replacement for it.

The subway I've proposed is also significantly faster to get from downtown to downtown than the current set up, which won't be vastly improved post-LRT. The 109 Express takes 35-40 minutes on a good day just to get to subway. This new subway would do the job in half the amount of time. It's also less ground to cover than starting a brand new subway from Osgoode and extending that into Mississauga. It's far more realistic to suggest an extension how I've outlined it with commuters transferring onto the DRL at either Keele or Dundas West in order to head downtown. A commute like that would only take 45 minutes or less from Mississauga City Hall/Celebration Square to Toronto City Hall/Nathan Philips Square.

I'm not sure if a subway that has to go all the way down to the QEW from Square One before heading towards Kipling would save much time over the existing Burnhamthorpe bus (except during bad weather, traffic,etc.). Would it be worth the effort / expense? Even though I'd benefit directly from a one stop ride to work from Dundas West to S1, I don't see this as being even remotely a priority....

However, the idea of a GO Milton branch direct to S1, with a new stop at Dundas West..well, I'll go for that!

 

[Red October]

This makes me sad. Please don't do this again.

It's easier to make a "more full" looking metro network when you have every direction to branch out, as opposed to Toronto where you have half that.

Amazingly this actually makes me feel better about Toronto's network, because it seems to actually be more far-reaching than others. Yes it would be ideal to have one that looks more like Chicago's (who's geographic situation is similar to Toronto's), but they also got a 50 year head start and did a lot of their metro expansion when nobody gave a damn about safety regulations and workers' rights.

That shouldn't be read as me giving Toronto a pass, because it's embarrassing how little expansion of the metro network has happened over the decades, but those pictures make me feel a bit better, not worse.

 

[44 North]

Brilliant. I have wanted to see the NYC network superimposed for scale. I know that from our waterfront to Eglinton is approx the same distance as Battery Park to Midtown / 59th St.

Thanks. GMaps transit overlay makes it easy, and this guys site was always fun to look at. Did a few more, but will probably stop since it's irritating deciding how to situate Toronto (and realizing that the space I originally allocated is too small).

 

[WislaHD]

Quoting from the Rail Deck Park thread, as to not derail discussion.

**drool** Fantasy Map time. I wanna see what the Ex and Portland branches look like.

But I could be downtown from Gerrard Sq in about 9 mins to King. This rocks! Will rock. Er, could rock. Damn.

In my fantasy maps, they usually look something like this:

Curious to see what @44 North is thinking of. But I think that it is his proposal for the DRL to branch south to the Portlands.

I'm not as big of a fan of that idea simply because it would be splitting service to either the core, or to the Danforth&Don Mills section, neither of which I think should have split service.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I don't know why we are so afraid of interlining service in toronto... ^^^ The East/West portions of the Red and Teal lines should be run in the same tunnel, with a 3 or 4 track profile to keep service times up.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

In my fantasy I envision a series of interweaving "flying U's" along each major road in the core. Each U getting wider the further north you got, until Bloor (and Eglinton LRT) where the route became (mostly) E/W.

I'm not sure how to link google maps within a post however here is a link to my map

https://drive.google.com/open?id=132Z-j0mE2AqNl7RibGNRqCuJPW4&usp=sharing

 

[WislaHD]

I don't know why we are so afraid of interlining service in toronto... ^^^ The East/West portions of the Red and Teal lines should be run in the same tunnel, with a 3 or 4 track profile to keep service times up.

It is certainly an option!

Many many pages back, we were discussing GO-RER as DRL through central tunnel and overlapping GO lines providing high frequency.

 

[aquateam]

I don't know why we are so afraid of interlining service in toronto... ^^^ The East/West portions of the Red and Teal lines should be run in the same tunnel, with a 3 or 4 track profile to keep service times up.

There are some good reasons, both from a service and operational perspective, why we should be wary of any branching proposals. But I agree in this case that rather than build two expensive parallel tunnels within 400 meters of each other it would make sense to have them share one big tunnel.

 

[44 North]

Quoting from the Rail Deck Park thread, as to not derail discussion.


In my fantasy maps, they usually look something like this:

Curious to see what @44 North is thinking of. But I think that it is his proposal for the DRL to branch south to the Portlands.

I'm not as big of a fan of that idea simply because it would be splitting service to either the core, or to the Danforth&Don Mills section, neither of which I think should have split service.

Wicked. Is the teal line LRT or standard subway? Might agree with others about using a single cross-core tunnel with a 3-track setup. If there ever were enough funds to build two tunnels across downtown I think an idea worth considering would be to instead spread those extra funds towards grade-separating the centralist ~2km of the 504, 505, 506. Would provide a much-needed boost in speed/reliability/capacity for the legacy system. I like that you have the LDL/PL connected. Considering what's proposed having some kind of fully grade-separated service would be wise IMO. Whether that be a semi-frequent spur of the conventional RL, some kind of 2 or 3-car shuttle using parts of the RL tunnel, or a Crosstown-style LRT along EBF.

For the western leg of the RL Dufferin is definitely a good contender, but it does pass fairly close to U/S. I'm of the opinion that keeping a good spacing between lines and perhaps trying to follow a NW path could be beneficial. So perhaps some kind of combo using GTS-Keele-Dundas-Jane-Weston, etc. It'd make a good mirror of the eastern portion, somewhat equidistant to Line 1, and would create an effective flying U.

 

[Hopkins123]

Wicked. Is the teal line LRT or standard subway? Might agree with others about using a single cross-core tunnel with a 3-track setup. If there ever were enough funds to build two tunnels across downtown I think an idea worth considering would be to instead spread those extra funds towards grade-separating the centralist ~2km of the 504, 505, 506. Would provide a much-needed boost in speed/reliability/capacity for the legacy system. I like that you have the LDL/PL connected. Considering what's proposed having some kind of fully grade-separated service would be wise IMO. Whether that be a semi-frequent spur of the conventional RL, some kind of 2 or 3-car shuttle using parts of the RL tunnel, or a Crosstown-style LRT along EBF.

For the western leg of the RL Dufferin is definitely a good contender, but it does pass fairly close to U/S. I'm of the opinion that keeping a good spacing between lines and perhaps trying to follow a NW path could be beneficial. So perhaps some kind of combo using GTS-Keele-Dundas-Jane-Weston, etc. It'd make a good mirror of the eastern portion, somewhat equidistant to Line 1, and would create an effective flying U.

For the western leg of the Relief Line Keele/Parkside would be so much easier and cheaper to build and construct than going up Dufferin, Jane or Roncy/Dundas.