Transit Fantasy Maps

[JMSRead]

Assuming DRL and SSE based on most recent proposals:

View attachment 78300

Cool! I wonder if Smarttrack/Go RER would be included on that map.

 

[44 North]

I was flipping through some images from the 1984 DRL report and stumbled on a map I wasn't aware of (showing a spur to the Exhibition site with all alignments). Just like with the current City/TTC study, ~30yrs ago planners also chose to ignore the western portion of the DRL to instead focus on the Pape to downtown section as the first phase. So I guess we'll never know the feasibility of branching the mainline. Either way I think it's interesting that a spur was once envisioned, and believe it lends credence to the idea. If such a thing could be considered again - specifically for the East Harbour / Port Lands - maybe we can do away with the current circuitous B1-Eastern/Queen alignment.

 

[BurlOak]

Scarborough Subway will cost $3B to $4.5B depending on the number of stations and the route. It got me thinking - is there a better use of that money that serves the same goals. Those being, to connect STC to downtown (Bloor or south), with a fast, reliable, continuous service. The best way to solve the problem is to make as much of the line elevated as possible, although there are some possibilities for full grade-separation at-grade in the Don Valley. Learning from the Davenport experience, if elevated transit is proposed next to residences, there must be a station within 1km - if they are to "suffer" from having a transit line, they need the benefit of a station.
Here is what I came up with (although it is far from optimized).

• Existing SRT curve onto Midland, with a station at Midland/Ellesmere
• South on Midland to Lawrence, with a station at Lawrence/GO (SmartTrack, RER, GO Interchange)
• West on Lawrence to CPR, with stations at Birchmount, Warden, and Vic Park
• Follow the CPR corridor (either above it, or elevated immediately north of it) to Don Valley East
• Follow East Don River to St. Dennis Road, with a station at Wynford (ECLRT Interchange)
• West on St. Dennis Road to Ontario Science Centre, with a station at Science Centre (Interchange with DRL)
• South along West Don River to Overlea Blvd.
• West on Overlea to Millwood Road, with a Station at East York Town Centre (possible Interchange with DRL)
• Straight through Millwood to Don Valley and follow roughly Don River and Bayview
• Continue under Bloor, and curve West along south side of Rosedale Valley Road.
• Curve south at Sherbourne with a station at Bloor/Sherbourne (Interchange with B-D Line 2)
• South on Sherbourne to The Esplanade*, with Stations at Wellesley, Gerrard, Queen (Interchange with DRL), and King
• West on The Esplanade* to Union, with Station at Union Bus Station

In total, there are 14 stations and 22 kilometres (plus a couple of kilometres at the North end, re-using the SRT from Midland to McCowan).
In rough number, that's 22km x $150M/km = $3.3B, plus 14 stations x $50M each = $700M. Total = $4B.

* - I also though about taking Wellington or Front through downtown. This line should make its way to the CNE (Liberty Village, King West), but I haven't figured this out yet.

 

[sureshot]

My GTHA transit map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qTb0qx4UsOeTSFFM9uiQMU7J7w4&usp=sharing

A few features to highlight:

GO/RER - Service to Peterborough via a midtown RER line, Bolton, Collingwood
Subway - DRL west alignment up Lansdowne as I suggested in the DRL thread, VCC to STC via Sheppard (Line 1 stops at Downsview in this instance), Bloor line to Cookeville GO
LRT - Dufferin line
Legacy Streetcar - significant expansion throughout the inner city
BRT - meh...

Station locations are not contemplated however there are some fairly obvious interchanges. Pretty sure I have a the Waterloo and Hamilton alignments wrong and yes, I am missing the new 514 service however with the DRL and Dufferin LRT I'm not sure this would be needed.

 

[BurlOak]

I was trying to break down the transit line to Scarborough into several chunks. Essentially, we want to connect Scarborough to Toronto.

First Segment: Scarborough.
Targets: 1) STC. 2) GO-RER, ST. 3) Other Stops
This is about 6 km, either along Ellesmere or Lawrence, with about 5 new stations plus the existing 2 stations at STC and McCowan.

 

[BurlOak]

Second Segment: (South-East) North York
Targets: 1) ECLRT Interchange. 2) Other Stops
This is about 6 km, with several possible routes, with about 2 stations.

With ECLRT not being grade-separated, it makes it difficult to find a strong preference on where to cross Eglinton. Vic Park makes some sense as the busiest location, but it means another crossing of the hydro corridor. Near Leslie, alongside the CPR is easiest bus misses serving Flemindon. At Wynford, through the Don Valley is another option.

Depending on exact routing of DRL, could have an interchange at Don Mills/CPR, or at Science Centre, or leave the interchange for the Thorncliffe area.

 

[BurlOak]

Third Segment: Thorncliffe and Don Valley
Targets: 1) Thorncliffe
This is about 4 km, with only 1 station.

The only stop here is at East York Centre Mall. Depending on DRL alignment, an interchange could be made with the DRL could be made, although near Science Centre is another possibility. The other goal here is to find a route that is fast, inexpensive, and disturbed the fewest number of NIMBY's.

 

[BurlOak]

Fourth Segment: Downtown
Targets: 1) B-D Interchange. 2) DRL Interchange. 3) YUS Interchange. 4) Downtown.
This is about 6 km, with several possible routes, with about 8 stations.

Either go down Sherbourne with an interchange at Sherbourne/Bloor, or continue down the Don Valley with a Gondola interchange with Castle Frank. Then an interchange with the DRL, either at Unilever, Sumach, or Sherbourne. It would go through downtown either on The Esplanade, Front, or Wellington. The interchange with YUS would either be Union or King and St. Andrew.

 

[BurlOak]

Fifth Segment: Downtown West - Phase 2
Targets: 1) Exhibition. 2) King West
This is about 3 km, with several possible routes, with about 3 stations.

Either along Rail corridor, or up to King. either going over GO and under Gardiner near Strachan, going west to near Dufferin, and over both corridors.

 

[BurlOak]

Sixth Segment: Malvern - Phase 2
Targets: 1) Centennial. 2) Malvern

This is about 6 km, with 4 stations. Essentially following the approved LRT route, but going up to Finch.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Second Segment: (South-East) North York
Targets: 1) ECLRT Interchange. 2) Other Stops
This is about 6 km, with several possible routes, with about 2 stations.

With ECLRT not being grade-separated, it makes it difficult to find a strong preference on where to cross Eglinton. Vic Park makes some sense as the busiest location, but it means another crossing of the hydro corridor. Near Leslie, alongside the CPR is easiest bus misses serving Flemindon. At Wynford, through the Don Valley is another option.

Depending on exact routing of DRL, could have an interchange at Don Mills/CPR, or at Science Centre, or leave the interchange for the Thorncliffe area.
View attachment 80217

Third Segment: Thorncliffe and Don Valley
Targets: 1) Thorncliffe
This is about 4 km, with only 1 station.

The only stop here is at East York Centre Mall. Depending on DRL alignment, an interchange could be made with the DRL could be made, although near Science Centre is another possibility. The other goal here is to find a route that is fast, inexpensive, and disturbed the fewest number of NIMBY's.
View attachment 80218

I like the CPR alignment through Leslie the best. It is perfectly placed for massive redevelopment of the whole Don Mills north of Eglinton (Celestica grounds and surrounding area) site. If Toronto is truly going to have explosive population growth by 2040, this is an area where I think we must convert a lot of brownfield sites and employment lands into denser residential lands. The station location is also neatly in between Lawrence and Eglinton on Don Mills, so interchange with the Relief Line is warranted too.

I wouldn't worry about serving Flemingdon Park with this line. The Relief Line would take care of that no problem.

As for alignment south of Thorncliffe Park, depending on the type of vehicle intended for this line, I would simply have it take the DRL tunnel and branch it off to Union after crossing the Don River.

 

[BurlOak]

Using the Vancouver model, this transit line would be fully grade-separated, and elevated for its entire length. Some very short at-grade segments may be possible within the Don Valley, but not enough to achieve any real cost savings. I tried to stay away from residential areas when in low density area. When in residential areas, a stop within 1 kilometer is required - a benefit to put up with having an elevated line. Pick coridors that have not previously been expecting underground subway, so it will be viewed as improved transit from what was previously offered. I would assume the capacity target would be about 30k ppdph, which would require about 100m long trains (and stations) and 100 second frequency.

So overall, we have the following

Phase 1: 22km and 16 Stations and 22 kilometres added to the SRT for a total of 24km and 18 stations.
Phase 2: Extensions with 3km and 3 stations West and 6km and 4 stations north-east.

Cost. $100M/km for elevated track, and $60M per elevated station. Add $20M for each interchange station. Add $100M for SRT rehab. Add $500M for a train yard, likely in the Don Valley.

Phase 1: $3.8B. (This compares to between $3.2B for the 1 stop subway and $4.3B for the 3 stop subway).
Phase 2: $600M and $800M.
Total: $5.2B.

 

[BurlOak]

I like the CPR alignment through Leslie the best. It is perfectly placed for massive redevelopment of the whole Don Mills north of Eglinton (Celestica grounds and surrounding area) site. If Toronto is truly going to have explosive population growth by 2040, this is an area where I think we must convert a lot of brownfield sites and employment lands into denser residential lands. The station location is also neatly in between Lawrence and Eglinton on Don Mills, so interchange with the Relief Line is warranted too.

I wouldn't worry about serving Flemingdon Park with this line. The Relief Line would take care of that no problem.

As for alignment south of Thorncliffe Park, depending on the type of vehicle intended for this line, I would simply have it take the DRL tunnel and branch it off to Union after crossing the Don River.

I am not very good with names, and stole (borrowed) this concept from someone here (and likely you). I know I have seen it just a week or so ago. I wanted a transit line with fairly high capacity and was a bit worried that making this a branch of the DRL would restrict that capacity of this branch and the branch up Don Mills to Finch to about 15k. I see this branch being a bit more heavily used than 15k (maybe 25k). I also see the Don Mills branch needing even higher capacity (likely 30k+), since it is expected to greatly relieve Yonge when it is extended to Finch (or even highway 7).

 

[SJD_Toronto]

Assuming DRL and SSE based on most recent proposals:

View attachment 78300

AWESOME map! Well done!

Only a few things I would change / add… for the relief line, wouldn’t the Pape station be renamed Danforth-Pape? It is on the Danforth. I suspect Queen-Pape will be named Queen East. I’d love to see the Eglinton Crosstown East line added.

 

[Dan416]

AWESOME map! Well done!

Only a few things I would change / add… for the relief line, wouldn’t the Pape station be renamed Danforth-Pape? It is on the Danforth. I suspect Queen-Pape will be named Queen East. I’d love to see the Eglinton Crosstown East line added.

Don't count on it. Knowing the TTC of late they'll just leave the station named as Pape because a few idiots would get confused if they renamed the station properly. See Eglinton station not being renamed Eglinton-Yonge.