Transit City Plan

[k10ery]

You think this debate is going to come down to who cleans up the vomit?

 

[Paleo]

I think "upgrading" is better than cancelling and starting from scratch...

By using the new revenue tools they could:

-Leave Sheppard East as is and make Agincourt GO its terminal station
-The "Upgrade" is Sheppard from Downsview from STC
-"Upgrade" Merge SRT with Eglinton
-"Upgrade" Elevate Eastern portion of Eglinton and a trench for the western section

Unify the City

The only one on your list worth using new revenue dollars on is finishing Eglinton to the airport.

1) DRL
2) GO electrification
3) Fixing road jogs in various parts of the city, Keele Street is an obvious one
4) Eastern waterfront
5) Transit City Bus Plan
6) Yonge extension

 

[Solid Snake]

Solid Snake:



Err, shouldn't any new revenue tools be used to fund the multiple phases of DRL instead of upgrading lines that doesn't need - by ridership projections - to be upgraded in the forseeable future. Take the Yonge line saturation issue seriously and stop messing around with the marginal projects.

AoD

Cool down Alvino. It wasn't in any specific order

If DRL portion between Pape to Exhibition (according to Metrolinx plan to relieve Union Station) is 100% paid by the province then

1-DRL From Pape to Eglinton
2-DRL Exhibition to Dundas West
3-Upgrade eastern Eglinton Crosstown by merging with SRT and elevate it
4-Eglinton Crosstown from Jane to Airport "build it in a trench"
5-Upgrade Finch West to Yonge
6-Sheppard West subway
7-Sheppard east (Mix LRT/subway or Subway only or LRT only) We won't know until the next election since Metrolinx plan to start building it in 2015 against the TTC's wish

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Solid Snake:

DRL terminating at Eglinton is well and good - but why not push it all the way to Sheppard (or further)? I would put that as a priority if the funds are available.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

You think this debate is going to come down to who cleans up the vomit?

It was one of many points I used to demonstrate that grade-separated stations are going to be more expensive to operate than streetcar stops.

And does it really matter who is paying for it? Even if it was included in the AFP - then if the AFP is for a surface LRT compared to grade-separated, it's still going to push upfront contract cost.

Given how badly AFPs have failed for transit (how many £billion did TFL lose when their AFP contracts collapsed), I'm surprised that anyone would be quick to go down that path.

 

[Solid Snake]

Solid Snake:

DRL terminating at Eglinton is well and good - but why not push it all the way to Sheppard (or further)? I would put that as a priority if the funds are available.

AoD

100% Agree

1-DRL From Pape to Eglinton then to Don Mills Station
2-DRL Exhibition to Dundas West then to Eglinton West
3-Upgrade eastern Eglinton Crosstown by merging with SRT and elevate it
4-Eglinton Crosstown from Jane to Airport "build it in a trench"
5-Upgrade Finch West to Yonge
6-Sheppard West subway
7-Sheppard east (Mix LRT/subway or Subway only or LRT only) We won't know until the next election since Metrolinx plan to start building it in 2015 against the TTC's wish

 

[nfitz]

100% Agree

1-DRL From Pape to Eglinton then to Don Mills Station

I used to take the Don Mills bus a lot, and the traffic north of Wynford was never anything like the traffic south of Eglinton. It should certainly go to Eglinton, and should be designed to allow for future extensions, but I doubt the traffic north of Eglinton current supports subway, meanwhile the alignment is excellent for LRT. Why not build Eglinton to Steeles as LRT now, and if the traffic grows to suitable levels in the future, build a subway in hundred years or so, when the demand is there.

 

[Paleo]

The only one on your list worth using new revenue dollars on is finishing Eglinton to the airport.

1) DRL
2) GO electrification
3) Fixing road jogs in various parts of the city, Keele Street is an obvious one
4) Eastern waterfront
5) Transit City Bus Plan
6) Yonge extension

I'll even add paying for signal upgrades on existing lines and buying more of the legacy streetcars as better use of new dollars than more absurd gold plating under Sheppard.

 

[ssiguy2]

Forget the stations, the savings of having a totally grade separated line is that the line can be automated aka no drivers.

 

[smallspy]

Forget the stations, the savings of having a totally grade separated line is that the line can be automated aka no drivers.

So you would rather trade a couple of million dollars in operators for $7mil per mile in maintenance?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[andrewpmk]

I used to take the Don Mills bus a lot, and the traffic north of Wynford was never anything like the traffic south of Eglinton. It should certainly go to Eglinton, and should be designed to allow for future extensions, but I doubt the traffic north of Eglinton current supports subway, meanwhile the alignment is excellent for LRT. Why not build Eglinton to Steeles as LRT now, and if the traffic grows to suitable levels in the future, build a subway in hundred years or so, when the demand is there.

DVP is always much more congested north of Eglinton, and 404 is very busy in rush hour as far as 16th Avenue. A subway along Don Mills needs to go further north than Eglinton. This would also help reduce overcrowding on the Yonge line which is packed all the way to Finch and make it easier to justify a Sheppard subway extension.

Also I always find that the 25 Don Mills bus gets busy further north as you go past York Mills up to about Finch.

 

[nfitz]

DVP is always much more congested north of Eglinton, and 404 is very busy in rush hour as far as 16th Avenue. A subway along Don Mills needs to go further north than Eglinton. This would also help reduce overcrowding on the Yonge line which is packed all the way to Finch and make it easier to justify a Sheppard subway extension.

I don't think the traffic on the DVP is coming from the Sheppard-Lawrence corridor along Don Mills. Much of it is coming from outside of 416.

Also I always find that the 25 Don Mills bus gets busy further north as you go past York Mills up to about Finch.

Ah, that's a separate issue. Yes, it starts picking up at Graydon and also just south of Sheppard. There is some demand ... but it never seemed as busy as south of Eglinton.

Really, best use demand modelling to test various networks, to see what would happen.

 

[snowystar]

So you would rather trade a couple of million dollars in operators for $7mil per mile in maintenance?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Maybe everything is just so expensive in Toronto. The maintenance for SkyTrain in Vancouver is 46.4 millions in 2010. With the two lines add up to be slightly more than 30 miles in length, this gives about 1.5 millions per mile, and it includes guideway, vehicles, stations, and all related infrastructures.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Not sure where you get that. It's pretty simple. The logic for delaying Eglinton construction is laid out in the report ... because they are concerned that rushing it, will cause unnecessary impacts to local businesses and traffic along Eglinton.

They were also looking at pushing forward Finch West. Sheppard East would come first, because back in 2010, the design of some of the eastern portion was already complete, and they were ready to start tendering it immediately. Nothing else is at that stage of design.

Not sure why one needs to turn to conspiracy theories, when there are simple explanations available

Not saying I think this just saying that it seems strange.

Even removing the comment about Eglinton and focusing soley on the Sheppard line. Why the desire to rush? Seems that Sheppard is being fixated on by the TTC. The only logical solution is that they fear another delay following the next municipal election, but it doesn't take much for a looney to take it a step further. I see nothing wrong with the current timeframe for the SELRT why not just leave it as is.

 

[nfitz]

Why the desire to rush? Seems that Sheppard is being fixated on by the TTC.

There's only 4 lines. One is already going gangbusters. The SRT can't start before 2015, or else it will be out-of-service during the Pan Am games (not sure why this is really an issue ... but everyone seems to think it is). TTC wanted to speed up both Finch and Sheppard. Sheppard is ready to start now, Finch still needs final design. Do you suggest they hold back Sheppard which could start building tomorrow, to get Finch to the same stage first??

I just don't get it ...

I see nothing wrong with the current timeframe for the SELRT why not just leave it as is.

Because it will be delivered 3 years later than it could be done, if TTC were to start building it today.