Transit City Plan

[nfitz]

If the TTC really thinks the private sector cannot do these projects, then why don't they just bid for the AFP themselves? If they're so great then they're bound to win, right?

I don't think that's the point. TTC's point seems to be that by delaying the start of construction by almost 2 years on some of the Eglinton stations, to do AFP, then your going to be constructing too many stations at the same time, in too rushed of a timeframe, that will lead to bigger disruptions at each station site, and with more Sites along Eglinton active than under TTCs plan.

As such, either they want Metrolinx to honour the original agreement to give TTC project control, in order to minimize disruption ... or take over the management of dealing with the public, so TTC and city councillors aren't put in a position of getting the blame for stuff that they have no control over.

Why do I think that Rob Ford or his cronies has his fingers in this?

Not seeing this. Why ARE you think this?

 

[Ansem]

From the TTC report
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Comm...on_LRT_Pro.pdf

Sheppard East LRT:
• Proceed with Infrastructure Ontario delivery.
• Anticipate award of contract by late 2014.
• Projected in-service date 2018.

If contracts are awarded only at the end of 2014, a candidate pro subway on Sheppard can easily cancel it again before any work has started. With the revenue tools being explored by city hall with a report on it this fall, a candidate can easily use those funds to make his financial case for a Sheppard subway

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Seems odd to me that they would want to push forward the Sheppard E LRT (aside from the potential for cancellation yet again) and yet want to slow the Eglinton LRT timeline.

These types of decisions are what make people think that there is an internal push to get Sheppard started/done above all other projects.

 

[nfitz]

Seems odd to me that they would want to push forward the Sheppard E LRT (aside from the potential for cancellation yet again) and yet want to slow the Eglinton LRT timeline.

These types of decisions are what make people think that there is an internal push to get Sheppard started/done above all other projects.

Not sure where you get that. It's pretty simple. The logic for delaying Eglinton construction is laid out in the report ... because they are concerned that rushing it, will cause unnecessary impacts to local businesses and traffic along Eglinton.

They were also looking at pushing forward Finch West. Sheppard East would come first, because back in 2010, the design of some of the eastern portion was already complete, and they were ready to start tendering it immediately. Nothing else is at that stage of design.

Not sure why one needs to turn to conspiracy theories, when there are simple explanations available

 

[k10ery]

I don't think that's the point. TTC's point seems to be that by delaying the start of construction by almost 2 years on some of the Eglinton stations, to do AFP, then your going to be constructing too many stations at the same time, in too rushed of a timeframe, that will lead to bigger disruptions at each station site, and with more Sites along Eglinton active than under TTCs plan.

That's one of several arguments they give, IMO the weakest one. If Eglinton is going to be a no-go street, then it's better to do it all at once. Pushing back completion just increases costs and delays benefits. The better arguments are about cost of private finance and lack of competition on the RFP. As to whether TTC should design and maintain the lines, I don't see why that's a good idea necessarily.

Their best argument of all is the unstated but obvious one: if Sheppard is delayed to 2014 then it will be an election issue.

 

[rbt]

If the TTC really thinks the private sector cannot do these projects, then why don't they just bid for the AFP themselves? If they're so great then they're bound to win, right?

TTC expects the private sector to cut capital corners that increase operations expenses.

 

[rbt]

That's one of several arguments they give, IMO the weakest one. If Eglinton is going to be a no-go street, then it's better to do it all at once.

Eglinton isn't the problem. It's also only a single east/west route.

Stations are at intersections, so the problem is blocking ~15 major North/South streets simultaneously for station construction.

Can you imagine the panic when a driver going from St. Clair/Yonge to Lawrence/Yonge needs to do so via Jane or Don Mills because every single intersection has a hole in it simultaneously?

Doing every other station would make it much much easier on commutters crossing Eglinton.

 

[ssiguy2]

TTC expects the private sector to cut capital corners that increase operations expenses.

If the TTC had any concerns over future operational costs then it would be a totally grade separated line so it could run automated.

 

[nfitz]

If the TTC had any concerns over future operational costs then it would be a totally grade separated line so it could run automated.

Because grade-separated stations are cheaper to operate and maintain than an unstaffed streetcar stop????

 

[Solid Snake]

Because grade-separated stations are cheaper to operate and maintain than an unstaffed streetcar stop????

Isn't the underground part of Eglinton POP anyways? So yes, it would

 

[Solid Snake]

From the TTC report
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Comm...on_LRT_Pro.pdf



If contracts are awarded only at the end of 2014, a candidate pro subway on Sheppard can easily cancel it again before any work has started. With the revenue tools being explored by city hall with a report on it this fall, a candidate can easily use those funds to make his financial case for a Sheppard subway

I think "upgrading" is better than cancelling and starting from scratch...

By using the new revenue tools they could:

-Leave Sheppard East as is and make Agincourt GO its terminal station
-The "Upgrade" is Sheppard from Downsview from STC
-"Upgrade" Merge SRT with Eglinton
-"Upgrade" Elevate Eastern portion of Eglinton and a trench for the western section

Unify the City

 

[nfitz]

Isn't the underground part of Eglinton POP anyways? So yes, it would

Not sure why POP makes much difference ... you still need to maintain the facilities, wash, garbage removal, lighting, etc. Even if you completely ticket takers, a simple bus-stop is far cheaper to operate and maintain than a grade-separated station.

 

[k10ery]

You're missing the point. The AFP would be for a company to design build and maintain the ECLRT. It therefore will not increase maintenance costs for the TTC.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Solid Snake:

By using the new revenue tools they could:

-Leave Sheppard East as is and make Agincourt GO its terminal station
-The "Upgrade" is Sheppard from Downsview from STC
-"Upgrade" Merge SRT with Eglinton
-"Upgrade" Elevate Eastern portion of Eglinton and a trench for the western section

Err, shouldn't any new revenue tools be used to fund the multiple phases of DRL instead of upgrading lines that doesn't need - by ridership projections - to be upgraded in the forseeable future. Take the Yonge line saturation issue seriously and stop messing around with the marginal projects.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

You're missing the point. The AFP would be for a company to design build and maintain the ECLRT. It therefore will not increase maintenance costs for the TTC.

Your missing the point. AFPs don't normally cover routine maintenance (garbage removal, sweeping floors, cleaning up vomit, changing light-bulbs, selling tickets, restarting stuck escalators, hydro for the heating, cooling, lights,, etc.). It's the big stuff ... replacing floors, windows, heating systems. These aren't 407-type arrangements - TTC would still be operating the service.