Transit City Plan

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think you can deny that technically an LRT vehicle is a streetcar (i.e. street train) that predominantly operates in it's on ROW. There are a wide range of different LRT examples, some with light priority, some without. So essentially, an at-grade LRT line is essentially a streetcar line with a ROW and other accompanying technologies to improve the speed of the line. Just like how an LRT line going underground in a tunnel is a subway (i.e. an underground metro line).

I think sometimes people get too caught on technicalities with track gauge and little details. In plain black and white terms, an LRT is a streetcar in its own ROW and with traffic priority technology.

Those technicalities are extremely important. Saying an LRT is a streetcar is like saying that a motorcycle is exactly like a car but with 2 less wheels.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think you can deny that technically an LRT vehicle is a streetcar (i.e. street train) that predominantly operates in it's on ROW. There are a wide range of different LRT examples, some with light priority, some without. So essentially, an at-grade LRT line is essentially a streetcar line with a ROW and other accompanying technologies to improve the speed of the line. Just like how an LRT line going underground in a tunnel is a subway (i.e. an underground metro line).

I think sometimes people get too caught on technicalities with track gauge and little details. In plain black and white terms, an LRT is a streetcar in its own ROW and with traffic priority technology.

As you can clearly see in this video an LRT is very different from a streetcar. I could get into technical details, but I think this video explains things better.
[video=youtube;jlJxlNnEnhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJxlNnEnhw&feature=related[/video]

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think you can deny that technically an LRT vehicle is a streetcar (i.e. street train) that predominantly operates in it's on ROW. There are a wide range of different LRT examples, some with light priority, some without. So essentially, an at-grade LRT line is essentially a streetcar line with a ROW and other accompanying technologies to improve the speed of the line. Just like how an LRT line going underground in a tunnel is a subway (i.e. an underground metro line).

I think sometimes people get too caught on technicalities with track gauge and little details. In plain black and white terms, an LRT is a streetcar in its own ROW and with traffic priority technology.

I don't think you can deny that technically an LRT vehicle is a streetcar (i.e. street train) that predominantly operates in it's on ROW. There are a wide range of different LRT examples, some with light priority, some without. So essentially, an at-grade LRT line is essentially a streetcar line with a ROW and other accompanying technologies to improve the speed of the line. Just like how an LRT line going underground in a tunnel is a subway (i.e. an underground metro line).

I think sometimes people get too caught on technicalities with track gauge and little details. In plain black and white terms, an LRT is a streetcar in its own ROW and with traffic priority technology.

As you can clearly see in this video an LRT is very different from a streetcar. I could get into technical details, but I think this video explains things better.
[video=youtube;jlJxlNnEnhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJxlNnEnhw&feature=related[/video]

 

[Mongo]

While signal priority can help to increase the overall speed of LRT line, there might be a bottleneck that was not discussed yet. Consider a frequent, rush-hour service with train intervals down to 1.5-2min. To allow a smooth movement of these trains those traffic lights would be almost always green to LRT and red to crossing traffic. So, we either need to force LRT to stop more often in rush hours or build underpasses. If there are 3-4 sets of lights between major intersection, then either LRT speed will be pretty slow or we need to build a number of udnerpasses thus defeating the puprose of saving money.

I do not think that this would happen. Most (all?) services would be less frequent than 90 seconds between cars, and even if they were that frequent on average during rush hours, I would expect that we would see "trains" of several cars, with each train 5 or more minutes apart, just like the subway does.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Of course the system is a little different from Toronto's lrt plan, but you can get an idea of what the light rail vehicles look like and how they operate.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

TheTigerMaster, I like how you respond to opposing viewpoints (regardless of how crazy they might be) in a calm and cool manner

 

[rbt]

As you can clearly see in this video an LRT is very different from a streetcar. I could get into technical details, but I think this video explains things better.
[video=youtube;jlJxlNnEnhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJxlNnEnhw&feature=related[/video]

That's essentially the same rolling stock that St. Clair, Spadina, King, Queen, Dundas, Bathurst, Queen's Quay, and College will have in a few years.

So it's not the vehicle itself.


Incidentally, our old subway cars were sold to Lagos to build an LRT system.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's essentially the same rolling stock that St. Clair, Spadina, King, Queen, Dundas, Bathurst, Queen's Quay, and College will have in a few years.

I disagree. Like I said before there are huge technical differences between LRT and streetcars. Even our new streetcars are significantly different then an LRT. I will admit that our new streetcars have an LRT style visual design, but that does not make it light rail.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Incidentally, our old subway cars were sold to Lagos to build an LRT system.[/QUOTE]

And I have no clue how Lagos plans to build an LRT system out of subway cars. Maybe they're planning to do an Allen Expressway style system but that wouldn't be an LRT.

 

[kkgg7]

Of course the system is a little different from Toronto's lrt plan, but you can get an idea of what the light rail vehicles look like and how they operate.

Yes, they work very nicely indeed. I like that.

Except if you look at the last half of the video (the longer ride), the train never had to stop for traffic lights for once (there didn't seem to be any traffic lights) and the spacing is a lot more than 4-500 meters as what is proposed in Toronto.

On Eglinton, if the LRT does have to stop every 500 meters, PLUS stops required by traffic lights, the experience can be quite different, more in line with the streetcars on Dundas and College.

 

[BMO]

I disagree. Like I said before there are huge technical differences between LRT and streetcars. Even our new streetcars are significantly different then an LRT. I will admit that our new streetcars have an LRT style visual design, but that does not make it light rail.

The TTC's current streetcar stock are CLRV (Canadian Light Rail Vehicle), albeit they are older iterations of LRVs. The technology of the rolling stock isn't what differentiates streetcar from LRT, it is in the way it is operated. I've done numerous university papers, and worked countless hours with transit experts and professors on LRT, specifically Waterloo's LRT. One difference, and it is kind of a weak difference, is that streetcars need loops to change directions, whereas LRT vehicles are bi-directional, this is the one clear difference I can agree to within the Toronto context.

Toronto's new streetcars will have the same amenities, comfort and reliability as the so called "LRT" vehicels for transit city. They will most likely even have the same propulsion system. For all intents and purposes, LRT vehicles could run on Toronto's streetcar system (with the exception of tight intersection turns and steep hills) as long as the track gauge is adjusted to accommodate them.

Toronto's new streetcars will even eventually have pantograph instead of the electrical pole.

 

[Tulse]

Toronto's new streetcars will have the same amenities, comfort and reliability as the so called "LRT" vehicels for transit city.

So does that mean that the LRT would be very like a streetcar, or instead that our streetcars are close to LRTs?

 

[sixrings]

could they not take out some of the stops on ST CLAIR add priority lighting and run it more like a LRT route

 

[BMO]

So does that mean that the LRT would be very like a streetcar, or instead that our streetcars are close to LRTs?

lol I should make that into a Philosaraptor meme for UT.

I think the new streetcars will be made more like LRT, than LRT being very like our current streetcars in a design sense. But in an operational sense, regardless of what the tram looks like, if it operates in mixed traffic and provides a local (stop demand) service, then it would be considered streetcar. A express larger distance stop spacing system with the same vehicles and private ROW would technically be considered LRT.

 

[11th]

As you can clearly see in this video an LRT is very different from a streetcar. I could get into technical details, but I think this video explains things better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJxlNnEnhw&feature=related

That operates similar to Calgary's C-trains than the proposed Transit City. The crossing barrier suggests the LRT gets absolute priority (as in normal rail lines).