Transit City Plan

[SimonP]

You can thank Jack Layton and the other NDP cohorts for that. The same cabal that spawned Miller.

You mean for not getting reelected in 1995? Because the NDP was trying to build three subway lines when they were in office.

 

[kEiThZ]

You mean for not getting reelected in 1995? Because the NDP was trying to build three subway lines when they were in office.

I was referring to his advocacy...AGAINST the DRL.

 

[Voltz]

Not just that. They will end up reducing bus service on Progress. The mass of students (and others) that get off at Markham and Progress will now face a rather steep walk up that hill on Progress to get to the Centennial campus. I want all the planners who decided not to have a stop at Markham to try walking up that hill on an icy day to tell me why anybody should have to do it on a regular basis because their bus service gets cut so that a select few (STC-Progress Campus direct travellers) get a comfy ride.

Two question related to the as planned SRT extension,

1.The Markham rd bus already runs a branch into the campus, why do you think there are a mass of students that need to walk from Markham rd?, I would also presume the TTC would divert the Markham rd bus via progress and milner after the extension opens to meet the centennial college station, it would not miss any stops.

2. Why do you seem think it is impossible to reroute the bus routes in Malvern to meet the planned terminus on Sheppard?

And having attended that campus recently, the progress bus was a pain and I would have much preferred the SRT extension

 

[nfitz]

Well, why not use articulated buses then? Higher capacity, lower operating costs, and improved rider experience.

They are only 18-metres long - only slightly longer than the old small streetcars we are replacing downtown with units that are twice as long. Compared to a 2-car LRT which is 60-metres long. And even lower operating costs and even more improved rider experience.

 

[gweed123]

They are only 18-metres long - only slightly longer than the old small streetcars we are replacing downtown with units that are twice as long. Compared to a 2-car LRT which is 60-metres long. And even lower operating costs and even more improved rider experience.

But for routes like Dufferin, Finch East, Lawrence, Don Mills (until the LRT, but hopefully DRL, is implemented), etc, artics would definitely improve capacity and reduce operating costs.

 

[nfitz]

Sure, using BRT on a few existing routes would help somewhat ... but it's no panacea. Nor does it mean we should replace fully-funded LRT lines with BRT lanes.

Would Artics work on Dufferin near Bloor, or Pape? There's a lot of weaving in and out of lanes, around turning traffic, and into bus stops between parked cars. I'd think that the drivers would have to drive more carefully and slower to navigate the vehicles.

 

[toraerach]

1980 or 1970?

The last stations to open in the old City of Toronto were on the Spadina line, opening in 1978. Kipling was opened in 1980, the last station built in Etobicoke. Since then, every RT project built has been in North York or Scarborough.

You can thank Jack Layton and the other NDP cohorts for that. The same cabal that spawned Miller.

I'm aware of that. The downtown left didn't want to see their neighbourhoods change due to subway construction and associated development - that's probably why a lot of suburbanites today are rejecting TC. No one wants to see their neighbourhood change drastically, whether it's highrise development downtown or avenues-style development in the suburbs. In both cases, development has/will occur anyways and we'll find ourselves without the transit infrastructure to support it.

I agree on this...up to a point. By the same token are you saying that people in Scarborough should have no say in how public transit in their communities is built? If the residents there would rather trade an SRT extension for a subway extension to STC should that not be their call?

I'm not saying no - but they should remember who's paying for the public transit improvements through their neighbourhoods (i.e. the citizens of Toronto and Ontario as a whole). If we only have so much money, it'd be a little selfish for anyone - anywhere - to demand all the money for their project while other improvements remain unfunded/cancelled.

 

[gweed123]

Sure, using BRT on a few existing routes would help somewhat ... but it's no panacea. Nor does it mean we should replace fully-funded LRT lines with BRT lanes.

Would Artics work on Dufferin near Bloor, or Pape? There's a lot of weaving in and out of lanes, around turning traffic, and into bus stops between parked cars. I'd think that the drivers would have to drive more carefully and slower to navigate the vehicles.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the 12 bus in Ottawa (which runs along Rideau St into downtown) uses artics. It seems to work reasonably well.

Also, during rush hour, on-street parking on those streets is banned is it not?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the 12 bus in Ottawa (which runs along Rideau St into downtown) uses artics. It seems to work reasonably well.

During my university days in Ottawa in the early 1990s I was left waiting for a bus outside the Museum of Civilisation for two hours in a freezing and slushy snow storm. When the articulated bus finally arrived it stopped, and went out of service. Thankfully the driver let me actually sit in the drivers seat to warm up my frozen toes. I asked what was the delay and he said the buses couldn't get up the hills, and that the articulated buses were the worst of the lot. Of course I asked him why did Ottawa buy buses that were not suitable for the winter, being a city that is 50% in winter, and he scoffed that those who make the buying decisions never take the bus.

 

[SimonP]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the 12 bus in Ottawa (which runs along Rideau St into downtown) uses artics. It seems to work reasonably well.

Also, during rush hour, on-street parking on those streets is banned is it not?

The 1 and 2 buses through downtown in mixed traffic used to always use artics when I was there, and traffic was never much more of an issue than normal. The big problem was their performance in the snow. Especially on hills, and the routes they ran along were always very flat. That might be a barrier to using them on some of the streets mentioned.

 

[drum118]

Talk to Mississauga about their artic's when it comes to snow or ice on a hill. Better still, ride one.

They had a hard time trying to climb that small hill between the CP tracks and Fairview on Hurontario. That fails in comparison what is on Dufferin Street, especially at Dovercourt.

They will fish tail even under the speed limit.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yup - had the experience of riding on an MT artic after a bout of freezing rain - it promptly got stuck at a very low graded slope.

AoD

 

[gweed123]

Interesting, I wasn't aware that weather was such an issue. I've taken the 95 downtown in less than ideal weather on several occasions (mainly going to the bars in the market, haha), and the bus didn't seem to have much of a problem, even with the steep hill going into downtown from the west (for anyone who's ever driven or walked that hill, it's a pretty damn steep hill).

 

[Electrify]

The artics on Yonge St have no problems in ThornHILL, Richmond HILL, or on the other side of the moraine in Aurora and Newmarket.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the 12 bus in Ottawa (which runs along Rideau St into downtown) uses artics. It seems to work reasonably well.

I don't recall quite as many buses dodging left-turning cars on Rideau - doesn't it tend to have left-turn lanes?

Also, during rush hour, on-street parking on those streets is banned is it not?

Only from 4 pm to 6 pm. The buses don't magically stop at 6 pm. At 6:30 pm, buses move frequently in both directions, often stuck with parking on one side, and turning vehicles on the other.