No one denies those lines exist, or that the numbers aren't accurate for them. What EnviroTO is stating is that none of those Chicago ones should be considered full subway lines. They are spur lines or low volume surface routes.
Looking at another city, in London the least used line, the Waterloo & City line, carries some 24,000 people per day. But this line only has two stations. The next lowest, Hammersmith & City, carries about 140,000 per day.
Fair enough…let’s compare to Montreal who has full subway lines similar to ours
Montreal average daily ridership: 1,050,800 ***No mistake there, it is higher in Montreal
Toronto average daily ridership: 948,100
Montreal Network:
-4 lines
-68 stations
-69.2 Km
-Blue line is the north crosstown
Toronto Network:
-4 lines
-69 stations
-70 Km
-Sheppard is the incomplete north crosstown
Let’s focus on the blue line vs. Sheppard which are very similar.
Montreal Blue line (2006) (12 stations-9.7 Km)
http://www.metrodemontreal.com/blue/index.html
Saint-Michel: 10,755
Iberville: 3,025
Fabre: 5,801
Jean-Talon (crossing the orange line like Sheppard-Yonge): 13199
De Castelneau: 3,867
Parc:6,522
Acadie:2,626
Outremont:3,223
Edouard-Monpetit:3,594
Universite-de-Montreal:7,200
Cote-Des-Neiges: 9,655
Snowdon (crossing the orange line): 8,666
Total: 78,133 (2006)
Sheppard Line (2009-2010) (5.5km-5 stations)
Bayview: 8,200
Besarrion: 2,590
Don Mills: 31,500
Leslie: 5,610
Sheppard-Yonge: 47,510
Total: 47,700
The blue line in Montreal is not considered as a failure but a success. It used to be shutdown at 11h10 pm when the ridership was low and now it closes later. On peak hours they use 6-cars trains and 3 cars-trains off peak.
Sheppard Line is poorly managed unfortunately. That line should be closed at 12 am. The 85 Bus is very fast and there’s no traffic in the evening. A lot of money is being wasted at keeping that line open up until 2 am.
They plan an extension to Anjou (who use to be its own city) to the town Centre and the Shopping Mall farther east. Funny that no one ever questioned that extension, called Anjou “middle of nowhere†and called the blue line a white elephant…
Now, to have lived on the blue line most of my life, there’s WAY more people along Sheppard Avenue and the vicinity of STC than on the blue line…Yet the blue line still draws 78,133 people a day and that was 2006… The blue line is too far to have Laval bus Transit and eastern suburbs to use those stations.
Sheppard subway on the other hand is close enough to have YRT redirect bus route to the stations and Go stations+ Go bus terminal at STC. STC is WAY bigger than Anjou Centre and you have NYCC at Sheppard-Yonge on top of it where you have thousands of workers working in the building along Yonge st. from Sheppard to at least Finch.
A Sheppard subway from Downsview to STC would easily surpass the blue line ridership. Sheppard having less than half the stations and km of the blue line already carries 61% of the ridership of the blue line. Sheppard ridership is higher than the SRT and we pretty much agree that the subway should be extended to STC.
With those fact, saying Sheppard doesn’t warrant a subway extension is BS. Regardless if it’s LRT or HRT, it definitely warrants RAPID TRANSIT fully grade separated with side bus for local stops and going to STC instead of the zoo. If the subway didn’t exist on Sheppard, than a true LRT (not streetcar) would make sense, but after the SRT debacle, we should have learned by now that you don’t split a line in half using 2 different technologies. It’s beyond retarded and stupid.
Some people here are still Miller’s followers even after he’s gone. News for you…he isn’t God. His vision was not perfect for Sheppard. Toronto has to stop thinking that they know better than anybody else how to build and plan a rapid transit network. Other cities are doing it right. Saying that Sheppard is a waste and people in that area don’t deserve rapid transit is saying that Montrealers were retarded to build the blue line which is false.
The blue lines haven’t revitalized Jean-Talon st., Edouard-Monpetit or Queen-Mary rd since the city never bothered to rezone those corridors. Toronto actually did it right on Sheppard Avenue East and West (even without the subway). The projects are multiplying and it increases the density along the corridor. The land value goes up especially with rapid transit available.
More density—>brings more residents—>brings more business--> brings more taxes revenue to the city. Those taxes are higher to land value being higher.
Sheppard can (will) be a success. I do agree other corridors and DRL comes first. But Sheppard should be subway when it get's it's turned.
Reserved lane on Sheppard east with keeping the 190 Rocket to STC makes sense and when the funds gets there, then we build
Meaning Ford should build Eglinton LRT first instead of running express buses there. Eglinton should have been higher in Ford's priority instead of Sheppard. Instead of cancelling the licence plate fee and land transfer tax, he should have redirected those funds to transit...but unfortunately he isn't pro transit... Cutting those revenue is a mistake...that's almost a KM of subway a year. The city have to find ways to be less dependant on the province.
Montreal announce this week a 45$ licence plate fee dedicated 100% to public transit. Tolls are next and will go to transit as well since the province don't see transit and Montreal as a priority. That was my Ford critic of the day
