Transit City Plan

[Electrify]

Okay, here is an idea for a compromise:

1. Adjust stop spacing to every 1 kilometer average on Sheppard and Eglinton, with buses servicing local needs. Even without traffic signal priority, the fact that it is in its own lane will allow it to get to the "front of the line" of traffic jams and build up and the limited stop spacing will allow it to achieve much higher speeds - plus make it at least comparable to full LRT rather than the current tramway proposal.
2. At Don Mills station, change it so that the south (eastbound) tracks are that of the SELRT, so transfers only require walking across the platform.
3. At Kennedy and Scarborough Center stations, replace ALL stairs with escalators. Also make their maintenance high priority, so when they need repairs they're carried out within 4-6 hours, rather than 4-6 months.
4. For Transit City surface stops, do what they are doing in York Region and have the stops fully enclosed to protect passengers from the elements.
5. Make sure all Transit City LRVs have a similar look to them as the Toronto Rocket subway trains. Hell, it may allow Ford to keep face in saying we "are" getting subways, and the masses may actually eat it up.

 

[allabootmatt]

I have to say that I find Ford's behaviour somewhat bizarre from a political standpoint, and am surprised that cooler heads among his staff didn't prevail. In a city that's desperate for new transit construction--ANY new transit construction, really, since I don't buy for a second that if the TC lines were actually completed they wouldn't be welcomed--he was handed a huge gift on a silver platter. David Miller did all the hard work of selling Transit City to the province and secured a once-in-a-generation funding commitment without a penny required from the City. His last term happened to coincide almost exactly with the 'stealth' phase of the TC projects, when money was being spent with no tangible results or construction. If Ford had literally sat back and done nothing on the transit file, he could have a steady series of groundbreakings and ribbon-cuttings to attend for four solid years, and look like a hero come 2014.

Instead, he's chosen to pick a completely unnecessary fight to which he appears to have brought a squirtgun against the premier's rocket launcher. I find the idea that Ford can somehow hold the provincial government hostage because it has an election coming up entirely unconvincing. If a plan that was ready to go turns into nothing at all, I think voters will know who to blame. And I think a 2014 election after a term in which Ford accomplished zero on the transit file is at least as much a problem for him as it will be for Dalton next year. At the end of the day, Queen's Park has the money. I could be wrong, but I don't see how such a needlessly confrontational approach will result in anything but chaos--the result of which will, of course, be no new transit.

The dude must really hate streetcars.

 

[howl]

I suspect Rob Ford knows any motion to scrap Transit City will never pass in council and therefore he's taking the opportunity to grandstand and blow hot air so he will come out looking like the common-man's hero who fights big government when it's defeated. Assuming he is serious about saving taxpayer money he wouldn't be taking the position he is now without knowing its a red herring.

 

[kEiThZ]

No, but it is to unilaterally proclaim that TC is dead.

Geez. I can't believe people are that sensitive. I don't like his politics. But when is a politician shooting his mouth off (particularly if said politician is Rob Ford) a reason for everyone to get their knickers in a knot? If he brought a motion to council to kill TC, that would be something worth discussing. Let's keep the powder dry till we something concrete.

I think this all just posturing so he can wring concessions out of Metrolinx.

If you were Rob Ford, wouldn't you do exactly what he just did?

 

[Asterix]

And here are some problems or at least items you need to take into account:

1. Adjust stop spacing to every 1 kilometer average on Sheppard and Eglinton,

Current underground spacing on Eglinton isn't that far off 1km, but more importantly, those stations are located at locations where they make sense. Simply arbitrarily putting stations every 1km is not good planning.

3. At Kennedy and Scarborough Center stations, replace ALL stairs with escalators. Also make their maintenance high priority, so when they need repairs they're carried out within 4-6 hours, rather than 4-6 months.

Realistically, just how long do you think an order to carry out all escalator repairs within 4 - 6 hours will last? Especially if you aren't going to be providing any more maintenance money to the TTC operating budget.

4. For Transit City surface stops, do what they are doing in York Region and have the stops fully enclosed to protect passengers from the elements.

Sure. If you are talking about more than standard TTC surface shelters, I presume you also have the funds for that?

5. Make sure all Transit City LRVs have a similar look to them as the Toronto Rocket subway trains. Hell, it may allow Ford to keep face in saying we "are" getting subways, and the masses may actually eat it up.

Um, you do realize that the LRVs are basically already ordered by Metrolinx? Are you just suggesting changing the livery or do you actually want to start looking at different LRV models, which will then require you to do all the studies to make sure they meet all the Toronto requirements. Have you asked Metrolinx what their thoughts are of renegotiating a contract they've already put out?

 

[Herman_muntz]

I think it maybe time to mobilize and get out the pen and paper and start mailing your representatives. We can not have 4 more years of nothing getting built, the studies have been done, the contracts have been signed and the shovels are on the ground. Now why do we want to spend $ 130 million plus cancellation fees on stopping this. Hopefully council is smarter then this.

 

[southkeys]

Don't forget the provincal election in 2011

I think Ford is betting on the election and hope to get more funding from the next government to complete Eglinton line.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think he's betting on trying to use this as a wedge issue to get Hudak elected so the two of them can ramble on about getting the private sector involved to build transit for years and years and years.

Again, I think if you're starting with the presumption that Ford gives a shit about transit you're starting from a false position.

 

[superman]

In a CP24 interview, Ford said that he wants Sheppard built underground to STC and then for Eglinton to be built.

From what he said, I'm guessing that the Sheppard LRT is dead and the Eglinton underground will be built, but Sheppard will probably come after Eglinton as the planning work has been done already and he probably wants something to show for it by the next election.

 

[gweed123]

I think Ford is betting on the election and hope to get more funding from the next government to complete Eglinton line.

Doubtful. If there's one thing Conservatives do very well, it's not fund transit expansion. The only reason we don't have an Eglinton subway now is that we elected Harris in 1995. I seriously doubt electing Hudak would be any different.

 

[ssiguy2]

OK guys relax.
Atleast part of the Sheppard East line is ready to go as a subway. Remember that a good chunk of the change went to the tunnel from Don Mills to Consumers. Making it subway to Consumers will take anymore time and will actually save money by not having to build a Don Mills LRT station connection with the subway.
A Sheppard East Spadina station isn't even built and could easily be built for a subway transfer station. The Yonge station which would have been the most difficult is already done. In otherwords the section from Spadina to Consumers will be a relatively inexpensive, quick, and easy affair. I've always thought should have been given priority over an DM to STC extension for connectivity.
I think the Bloor to STC extention is an obscene waste of funds and is politics 101. Tearing down a system to just build another is an obscene of funds and doesn't expand the system one foot. Just improve the connection at Kennedy, upgrade a couple of areas needed and buy some new MK11s and save yourself $700,000,000. By improving Kennedy and new trains at every 90 seconds capacity on the line would quite literally triple over night.
If he wants he can use those extra fund to build his Sheppard East ext to STC and have it done faster. He could conversely use those funds to redo Pape, Dundas East, Queen stations for a DRL which will be ready to start construction as soon as Spadina & Sheppard end construction by 2016.
Interesting thing is that if there was a myor that Toronto has had in the last 20 years who would actually put a DRL as a major expansion before anything else when Sheppard& Spadina are done it's Ford.
It would give him an ability to stop streetcar service on Queen for good.

 

[rbt]

Doubtful. If there's one thing Conservatives do very well, it's not fund transit expansion. The only reason we don't have an Eglinton subway now is that we elected Harris in 1995. I seriously doubt electing Hudak would be any different.

Recent Conservatives. The 70's variety was a little bit more inclined to make heavy investments into infrastructure (which has paid off dividends dozens of times over -- downtown Toronto wasn't built by the car; but by the subway).

 

[Asterix]

... could easily be built for a subway transfer station... a relatively inexpensive, quick, and easy affair.

Man, does it ever bug me when people throw around "easily be built" and "easy affair" to describe extensive and expensive infrastructure projects. I've yet to see an actual professional use that terminology. Must be a reason for that.

It would give him an ability to stop streetcar service on Queen for good.

No it wont. To suggest otherwise means one doesn't know what the DRL plan is nor what the Queen car does.

Maybe he could replace it with an elevated monorail? I hear they can do anything.

 

[Ansem]

DIdn't the SELRT have wider space stops at first, until all the open houses and input from the locals to make it have closer stops like the current bus? With all the open houses for input, how is this being shoved down everyone's throat? They should take china's approach and just say "F you" we're building this, you don't like it? Take him out and shoot him.

It seems to be the only way things get done.

That was due to the fact that the TTC didn't want to run a parallele bus Service for local stops...
If only they compromised...

 

[GraphicMatt]

I was *just* thinking that it would likely be trivially easy and incredibly inexpensive to replace all of Transit City with elevated monorail. It could loop around the city and stop at all major parking lots.