Transit City Plan

[DavidH]

True... ...except a monthly GO pass is $137, and some people will still need to have a TTC pass, which is another chunk of change on top of that...

...which is why I've said GO and TTC should be much better integrated.

And Metrolinx has said that fare integration (not fare system integration, which is Presto, but actual fare integration) is on their plate. We'll see where they get with it, but TTC resistance can always be swept aside by a policy statement from the Minister responsible. If they don't get it done, it will be a significant failure for the agency.

 

[nfitz]

Kennedy station to downtown will always be best done for most people on the Danforth line.

It's over half-an-hour and a transfer from Kennedy to Union on the Danforth line. But it's only 16-minutes on GO ... and presumably that will get shorter as they are upgrading all the switches from the Don River to Union Station to inrease the operating speed (and in the long-term as they electrify).

As GO has announced that they are planning a 15-minute peak service on this route by 2020, then even if you just miss a train, the travel time is the same. Assuming that fair integration has been done, I'd think that if you know that trains leave Kennedy for Union at 7:00, 7:15, 7:30, 7:45, etc., then you would head for the train, unless you just missed one, and your destination is a couple of stops north of Union.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

What I said still stands, even though these point to point theoretical exercises are always silly. Downtown does not equal the GO platform at Union and no one starts their trip at Kennedy...the number of people beginning their trip at Kennedy and ending it at Union is trivial, maybe twenty people a day.

 

[nfitz]

Not many start at Kennedy, but many already change vehicles at Kennedy. After Bloor-Yonge, Finch, and Union; Kennedy has more passengers getting on the subway than anywhere else on the system. If you already have to change vehicles, and you are heading to downtown (Union, King, Queen's Quay, etc.), then I can't imagine (assuming that fares are intergrated), why one would choose the subway over the non-stop to Union train.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Because it won't be faster for most people, particularly since they won't be able to perfectly time their transfer with GO trains even if they ran like clockwork every 15 minutes. UofT, Ryerson, Eaton Centre, the hospitals and government buildings, Yorkville, etc., etc....these are all downtown, too.

Theoretical 'Scarborough to Union' trips, though, would mostly be better on GO.

 

[nfitz]

Because it won't be faster for most people, particularly since they won't be able to perfectly time their transfer with GO trains even if they ran like clockwork every 15 minutes. UofT, Ryerson, Eaton Centre, the hospitals and government buildings, Yorkville, etc., etc....these are all downtown, too.

Sure ... if it's still faster, or about the same, to take the subway to Queen ... then I agree. Though when I have tried to change at Bloor-Yonge in rush-hour to the southbound Yonge train in AM rush-hour, I've had to wait for 2-3 trains to pass before I've been able to get close enough to the train to get on.

At the same time though, by the time the Eglinton RT opens in 2018, perhaps we'll have a DRL in place, which then may well take the advantage back to the subway.

 

[Eug]

At the same time though, by the time the Eglinton RT opens in 2018, perhaps we'll have a DRL in place

Unlikely. If it were to appear, it would likely appear much later.

 

[nfitz]

Unlikely. If it were to appear, it would likely appear much later.

I agree, but at the same time TTC and City of Toronto have talked about the Yonge extension opening in 2017, and have also talked about the DRL being opened first. I just can't imagine that there is any money left though for that to be built. There would have to be $5-billion or so magically drop out of the sky.

 

[golodhendil]

How certain is the 2017 date? Mostly because I find it hard (impossible) to believe that Toronto can study, plan, build and complete the DRL in less than a decade, especially one that goes up to Eglinton.

 

[nfitz]

How certain is the 2017 date? Mostly because I find it hard (impossible) to believe that Toronto can study, plan, build and complete the DRL in less than a decade, especially one that goes up to Eglinton.

If the funding for Yonge appeared tomorrow, it is quite doable. It's 8 years in the future. In the study report earlier this year, they noted that the duration would be about 8 years and "could be in service by 2017 assuming a Spring 2009 full funding commitment".

DRL isn't as far advanced though ...

 

[Eug]

Actually they plan to open the Eglinton Xtown line in 2016, with final completion in 2018 apparently.

...which means if it's completed by 2021 I'll be impressed.

 

[nfitz]

Actually they plan to open the Eglinton Xtown line in 2016, with final completion in 2018 apparently.

Yes, that's what we said above. It's the Yonge subway extension that has a 2017 date (though unlikely given that no funding has been announced).

 

[golodhendil]

If the funding for Yonge appeared tomorrow, it is quite doable. It's 8 years in the future. In the study report earlier this year, they noted that the duration would be about 8 years and "could be in service by 2017 assuming a Spring 2009 full funding commitment".

DRL isn't as far advanced though ...

Yea I agree the Yonge extension *could* be doable in that timeframe, but I doubt the DRL.

 

[nfitz]

Yea I agree the Yonge extension *could* be doable in that timeframe, but I doubt the DRL.

No ... it would need the preliminary study first. Though as that's supposed to kick off this month, then in theory it could be done in 2010, and then 8 years after for 2018 ... assuming the money falls out of the sky.

 

[W. K. Lis]

No ... it would need the preliminary study first. Though as that's supposed to kick off this month, then in theory it could be done in 2010, and then 8 years after for 2018 ... assuming the money falls out of the sky.

If Toronto gets the Pam Am Games for 2015, a lot of Transit City will be put on the fast track for completion by 2015. That could mean 24/7 construction, instead of no night and off Sundays.