J
Junglab2002
Guest
For some reason, I feel copelled to add my 2 cents to this discussion.
First off, let me start by saying that, finally, this plan breaks the insufferable, and longstanding cycle of loonacy with respect to transit-building in Toronto. Ever since the early-to-mid 1970s, when BD was extended past Islington/Warden to Kipling/Kennedy, Yonge was extended to Finch, and the Queen Subway gasped her last breath, transit planning in Toronto has been not only wasteful, but entirley counter-productive. The very next extension (St. George to Wilson), was perhaps the first, and most egregious example of how not to build a subway line - and it would set the stage for much of the subway expansion (or not) to come.
At the time (and oh, how history loves to repeat itself), planning to run expensive subway lines to the middle of nowhere was thought to be a great urban planning principle, as long as that middle of nowhere spot could conceivably be called an urban centre or a node (despite lacking any corresponding physical attributes). Then, as now, the idea was to "build it, and they will come"... yet some 30 years later, the line remains grosly underutilized.
The RT network plan derived directly from the failure of this line - the enormous expense of building subways to nowhere necessitated a search for a new technology to fit between subways and streetcars operating in mixed traffic. In response, the TTC came up with SROWs... which the province gussied up into a sexy new technology. We all know what happened next. With subways to nowhere having been discredited as efficient planning tools, and the spectacular failure of the RT system (which smeared the whole concept of intermediate technology), policy makers gave up on transit as a means of transportation in the growing sub- and exurbs, resulting in the car-oriented cities currently engulfing Toronto.
And yet, somehow our city fathers STILL managed to propose, and build, the farsical Sheppard line, as well as fund the money-pit that the Spadina extension will no doubt be. These projects demonstrate the complete and abject failure of our urban leaders/policy makers to plan and build subway lines effectively.
It is way past time, therefore, to start looking beyond single, solitary, isolated subway lines (no matter where, or how "potentially useful" they might be), and start thinking in terms of a network. Our city is so far behind the ball that ANY single subway extension fails for the reasons that it 1) does not address the vast dearth of transit service in the city, 2) holds all further discussion on (subway) expansion hostage due to the large costs involved, and 3) does not become operational in a timeframe suitable to address current transit needs.
Thus, while I feel for those who pine for a subway to replace the RT, I must disagree based on these very principles - holding out for this line (never mind any others) wastes valuable time while our city sinks further and further into the quagmire of physcal and policy gridlock. The conversion of the RT may be a rational way to deal with transit needs along the RT corridor, but it is patently irrational in light of our city's incredibly vast needs not only for improved transit, but also, for increased transit connectivity.
Thus, while I might quible with the specific routings chosen by those who drafted the Transit City report, I applaud them for moving away from the stultifying, constricting, and intensely competitive (between neighborhoods and former cities) single-minded focus on subway expansion, and moving to a new paradigm that embraces transit connectivity.
That being said, my quibles follow:
1) the Finch line should drop down to Sheppard (perhaps using the to-be-constructed interim busway between York U and Downsview), and continue eastwards along this route to Yonge-Shepprd station and beyond, in order to start building ridership patterns and development commensurate with the eventual (and very far off) conversion of this line to fukl subway service
2) Steve Munro has all but confirmed that the Don Mills line will be tunnelled under Pape (or some other street nearby) to meet the BD line - this should be linked with a western waterfront LRT as soon as possible (indeed, I think the only reason why Transit City did not explicitly make this link was because the rail corridors, and the whole western waterfront LRT plans, are currently being examined)
3) Again, as Steve Monro points out, Jane could be routed via the Weston or Black Creek Drive corridors to Dundas West station, and could potentially continue on towards Union... Blue 22 precludes any discussion on these alignments, which may fuirther reflect the relative haziness on just how the southern portion of the Jane street LRT might connect with the BD line
First off, let me start by saying that, finally, this plan breaks the insufferable, and longstanding cycle of loonacy with respect to transit-building in Toronto. Ever since the early-to-mid 1970s, when BD was extended past Islington/Warden to Kipling/Kennedy, Yonge was extended to Finch, and the Queen Subway gasped her last breath, transit planning in Toronto has been not only wasteful, but entirley counter-productive. The very next extension (St. George to Wilson), was perhaps the first, and most egregious example of how not to build a subway line - and it would set the stage for much of the subway expansion (or not) to come.
At the time (and oh, how history loves to repeat itself), planning to run expensive subway lines to the middle of nowhere was thought to be a great urban planning principle, as long as that middle of nowhere spot could conceivably be called an urban centre or a node (despite lacking any corresponding physical attributes). Then, as now, the idea was to "build it, and they will come"... yet some 30 years later, the line remains grosly underutilized.
The RT network plan derived directly from the failure of this line - the enormous expense of building subways to nowhere necessitated a search for a new technology to fit between subways and streetcars operating in mixed traffic. In response, the TTC came up with SROWs... which the province gussied up into a sexy new technology. We all know what happened next. With subways to nowhere having been discredited as efficient planning tools, and the spectacular failure of the RT system (which smeared the whole concept of intermediate technology), policy makers gave up on transit as a means of transportation in the growing sub- and exurbs, resulting in the car-oriented cities currently engulfing Toronto.
And yet, somehow our city fathers STILL managed to propose, and build, the farsical Sheppard line, as well as fund the money-pit that the Spadina extension will no doubt be. These projects demonstrate the complete and abject failure of our urban leaders/policy makers to plan and build subway lines effectively.
It is way past time, therefore, to start looking beyond single, solitary, isolated subway lines (no matter where, or how "potentially useful" they might be), and start thinking in terms of a network. Our city is so far behind the ball that ANY single subway extension fails for the reasons that it 1) does not address the vast dearth of transit service in the city, 2) holds all further discussion on (subway) expansion hostage due to the large costs involved, and 3) does not become operational in a timeframe suitable to address current transit needs.
Thus, while I feel for those who pine for a subway to replace the RT, I must disagree based on these very principles - holding out for this line (never mind any others) wastes valuable time while our city sinks further and further into the quagmire of physcal and policy gridlock. The conversion of the RT may be a rational way to deal with transit needs along the RT corridor, but it is patently irrational in light of our city's incredibly vast needs not only for improved transit, but also, for increased transit connectivity.
Thus, while I might quible with the specific routings chosen by those who drafted the Transit City report, I applaud them for moving away from the stultifying, constricting, and intensely competitive (between neighborhoods and former cities) single-minded focus on subway expansion, and moving to a new paradigm that embraces transit connectivity.
That being said, my quibles follow:
1) the Finch line should drop down to Sheppard (perhaps using the to-be-constructed interim busway between York U and Downsview), and continue eastwards along this route to Yonge-Shepprd station and beyond, in order to start building ridership patterns and development commensurate with the eventual (and very far off) conversion of this line to fukl subway service
2) Steve Munro has all but confirmed that the Don Mills line will be tunnelled under Pape (or some other street nearby) to meet the BD line - this should be linked with a western waterfront LRT as soon as possible (indeed, I think the only reason why Transit City did not explicitly make this link was because the rail corridors, and the whole western waterfront LRT plans, are currently being examined)
3) Again, as Steve Monro points out, Jane could be routed via the Weston or Black Creek Drive corridors to Dundas West station, and could potentially continue on towards Union... Blue 22 precludes any discussion on these alignments, which may fuirther reflect the relative haziness on just how the southern portion of the Jane street LRT might connect with the BD line