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Transit City Plan

unimaginative,

I used to think that Toronto took the cake for municipal politicians and policy makers being close-minded and not investigating how cities around the world made things work more efficiently.

Then I moved to New York. They are so hopelessly stubborn at rejecting what other cities do that I'm going to call this the "New York syndrome" from now on.

...

In another thread, it was revealed somewhere that an Environmental Assessment for a subway in Madrid takes 6 months. I hate to sound like a misanthrope, but why do we have to pay some consulting firm millions of dollars to spend 2 years making a Power Point presentation that just reveals the bloody obvious?
 
I read somewhere that the man in charge of building the subway in Madrid is well-connected in the construction business, and is (was?) in charge of the Madrid metropolitan regional government. So I suppose he was able to grease the skids, so to speak. It would be akin to having Paul Godfrey running Metro again, and PCL or Ellis Don at the same time, and being able to coordinate contracts after a six month EA process. Clearly conflict-of-interest rules may be less strenuous in Spain, so I suppose echoes of Franco corporatism still linger.

The other issue is in Spain, the Metro trains aren't much bigger than our streetcars. They use a single-bore, twin track tunnel system, rather than twin tunnels, so I have to think that drastically simplifies and shortens the construction process. Our trains are to theirs what a Mondeo is to a Pathfinder. So if an Eglinton streetcar tunnel is to be built, I would think (hope) such a process will be used, rather than (in my opinion) the overbuilt tunnels under Bay Street and the Spadina station portal.

Alch, you've answered your own question re: consultants. What it would take to break this addiction I have no idea. I suspect it takes legislative changes, but given the incestuous relationships between consulting firms and politicians in this country, that is unlikely to say the least.

I'm not going to add more to this thread, as any point I would have made has already been made, only to say that the Sheppard subway will continue to Scarborough, it would be sheer insanity not to. And the Eglinton crosstown tunnel, if constructed with foresight in anticipation of conversion to heavy rail, may one day rival R.H Harris' inclusion of a lower deck on the Prince Edward Viaduct as a seminal moment of inspired thinking.
 
Then I moved to New York. They are so hopelessly stubborn at rejecting what other cities do that I'm going to call this the "New York syndrome" from now on.
Click to expand...

How long have you been in NYC Alchemist?
 
As far as the astronomical cost of the (desperately needed) 2AV subway, keep in mind that NY probably has the most complex existing underground infrastructure of any city in the world. Think of all the obstacles that line will somehow have to tunnel under/over/around...several existing east-west subway lines, the huge LIRR/Amtrak tunnel, enough underground utilities to power and water that world's biggest business district, and at least 4 ninja turtles.

By comparison TO's underground space is practically empty. Hell, on Eglinton there aren't even buried hydro lines!

As for Madrid, I would love to know how they have managed to accomplish so much for apparently so little. It has struck me that Toronto's trains are VERY big compared to any other system I've ever rode in, especially European ones.
 
Quote:
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In the early 1980s, workers paved over the Eglinton West streetcar line, substituting this bus.
-------------------------------------------------------------

That was from the article that AlvinofDiaspar posted. I know this is kinda off topic, but I have never heard of an Eglinton West streetcar line, and I am almost 100% sure it never existed. Is that just a screw-up on the writer's part or something? Or is there some mystery Eglinton West streetcar that I never heard anything about?
 
Re: Re: Plan calls for light rail network

No sign of the tracks in 1987/1988 - I worked at Eglinton/Bathurst at that time.
 
Re: Re: Plan calls for light rail network

I do think that if they could get GO access on Eglinton, the LRT was subway like, and the stub of the highway ending on Eglinton -- that this could encourage this area to be developed as another "city centre" (further afield than Eglinton and Yonge).
 
Re: Re: Plan calls for light rail network

I have never heard of an Eglinton West streetcar line, and I am almost 100% sure it never existed
Click to expand...
They're referring to the remnants of the old Oakwood car line, which ran from St. Clair and Oakwood, up Oakwood (along with the Rogers Road car), up to Eglinton and west over to Gilbert loop. The Oakwood car was replaced by trolleybuses in 1960.
 
Re: Re: Plan calls for light rail network

Well, they were off by twenty years in any case. I'm not too well versed on streetcar history :p
 
Re: Plan calls for light rail network

Streetcar is enviromental friendly, but it's extremely inefficient. It is ridiculously SLOW comparing to bus. How long will it take to travel the Eglinton route from one end to the other end (say Kenedy to airport)? 3 hours minimum!
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^
Someone who obviously did not read the part about Eglinton LRT being BELOW GROUND for large portions.
 
Re: Plan calls for light rail network

^Streetcar's on ROWs are usually pretty quick too.
 
Re: Plan calls for light rail network

^What ROW in Toronto have you taken that is usally pretty quick?
 
Re: Plan calls for light rail network

Well, assuming that the average person walks at 5-6 km/h, the Spadina ROW is "pretty quick"...
 
Re: Plan calls for light rail network

Actually, no. I usually walk if I want to get somewhere quickly on Spadina. I have several stories of people starting to walk north as I get on at Front, and them passing us by the time the streetcar gets up to Queen.
 
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