Transit City Gauge

[andomano]

In the case of Bombardier, this is not true. The trackage at Thunder Bay is slightly under TTC gauge, but enough that either TTC-spec or standard gauge equipment can run on it with care.

This isn't true, the track at the Thunder Bay plant is a dual gauge track, with both standard and TTC gauge rails.

This may be what the rival companies are referring to, where Bombardier already has the infrastructure necessary to handle this unique gauge, whereas they do not.

 

[Voltz]

Like I wrote above, it's more than an inch.

There may be no change to the exterior (that we know of), but they may be structural issues that have to be looked at. You have to consider that the trucks will be swinging a fair amount, and even being further outboard by an inch and a quarter may be enough to interfere with any underfloor equipment or structure that would have cleared using standard gauge trucks.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

More specifically, I meant each wheel would be spaced out a bit more than a inch, for a total of about two and a half.

But on 100% low floor LRV's, aren't the car body sections fixed to the trucks? And therefore there would be no swing issues?

 

[smallspy]

This isn't true, the track at the Thunder Bay plant is a dual gauge track, with both standard and TTC gauge rails.

That isn't my understanding from people who've worked at the plant or visited inside.

Perhaps outside on the test tracks - in fact, I would assume that the test tracks would be built to a particular gauge rather than trying to fit both gauges together on the same rails, lest there be any incidents with new equipment.

But on 100% low floor LRV's, aren't the car body sections fixed to the trucks? And therefore there would be no swing issues?

Depends on the model. Sometimes yes, and sometimes no - for instance, the original Combino design called for the bogies to be fixed to a short-length carbody section. The current version doesn't have short-length sections, and thus the trucks would have to have some swing in them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Platform 27]

That isn't my understanding from people who've worked at the plant or visited inside.

Perhaps outside on the test tracks - in fact, I would assume that the test tracks would be built to a particular gauge rather than trying to fit both gauges together on the same rails, lest there be any incidents with new equipment.

Andomano's our resident eyes and ears up against the fence at the Thunder Bay plant. I'm pretty sure he was referring to the outdoor track there.

 

[andomano]

That isn't my understanding from people who've worked at the plant or visited inside.

Perhaps outside on the test tracks - in fact, I would assume that the test tracks would be built to a particular gauge rather than trying to fit both gauges together on the same rails, lest there be any incidents with new equipment.

True, I am talking about the outside tracks. Upon first glance I assumed it would be the same inside the plant, but now after some thinking, the test tracks (2) that have dual gauges do not connect with the inside of the plant. Regardless, this would still be seen as an advantage to any Bombardier bid.

Andomano's our resident eyes and ears up against the fence at the Thunder Bay plant.

Temporary resident... I'm just a railfan from Scarborough up here for University.

 

[jeffreym]

True, I am talking about the outside tracks. Upon first glance I assumed it would be the same inside the plant, but now after some thinking, the test tracks (2) that have dual gauges do not connect with the inside of the plant. Regardless, this would still be seen as an advantage to any Bombardier bid.



Temporary resident... I'm just a railfan from Scarborough up here for University.

But I thought the Thunder Bay plant doesn't have the capacity build the TC cars? Wouldn't that render any advantage moot (Though I still don't see how that little bit of track means that we have to give up the standard we have in Toronto)

 

[waterloowarrior]

TTC standardizes streetcars

TORSTAR NEWS SERVICE
January 06, 2010 5:33 a.m.
http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/local/article/414428--ttc-standardizes-streetcars

It’s one more stop on the road to conformity.

Among the features that distinguish Toronto’s streetcars from those in other cities is the track gauge. TTC cars run on a wider gauge — that’s the distance between the inner edges of the two parallel rails.

Now, more than a century after Toronto’s first street rails were installed, there’s change afoot:

The TTC has agreed its new Transit City lines will conform to the worldwide standard established in England in 1845, which is about six centimetres narrower than the existing 1.5 metres.

The TTC and Metrolinx, the provincial agency that is funding the Transit City lines on Finch, Sheppard and Eglinton, want to make sure the new lines are compatible with any other light rail transit (LRT) that might be built in the province in the future. Mississauga, Hamilton, Ottawa and Waterloo have all expressed an interest in LRT, although none is committed.

There are no plans yet to physically link regional systems to the TTC’s Transit City lines, but converting to the standardized gauge could help the province get a better price on streetcars, said Metrolinx vice-president John Howe.

“What we want to do is remove as much vehicle customization as possible, because we think we can achieve better value for the taxpayer by taking an international off-the-shelf standard design, basically the same proven LRT vehicles that are used elsewhere in Canada, the U.S. and Europe,” he said.

 

[Tuscani01]

Great news! Thank you Metrolinx.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i'm curious to know how much money they will be saving by going with standard gauge. will it be worth it since now we will have a streetcar system that is incompatible with the transit city system?

 

[Darwinkgo]

i'm curious to know how much money they will be saving by going with standard gauge. will it be worth it since now we will have a streetcar system that is incompatible with the transit city system?

They were going to be incompatible no matter what, it terms of turning radii, grade capabilities, power pick up, and most importantly the switching system. May aswell make it easier to have as many bidders as possible, especially since all will likely have to build new plants or expansions to meet any contracts likely domestic requirement numbers.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

They were going to be incompatible no matter what, it terms of turning radii, grade capabilities, power pick up, and most importantly the switching system. May aswell make it easier to have as many bidders as possible, especially since all will likely have to build new plants or expansions to meet any contracts likely domestic requirement numbers.

the current proposed transit city fleet would be incompatible but their future replacements might not be. also, the streetcar fleet would be able to travel on transit city's tracks, provided the overhead wiring was compatible.

using two different gauges limits your routing possibilities in the future. as others have stated before, it's not really an issue to have rolling stock designed to TTC gauge. even the subway is not standard gauge and that isn't stopping the subway from going outside toronto's borders.

 

[nfitz]

Good grief ... what a screw-up! Fine for Eglinton, Sheppard, and Finch perhaps. But how is this going to work on Lakeshore West ... or the St. Clair extension?

 

[RedRocket191]

That would depend on the branding. There's nothing in that statement that says those lines couldn't be built as "TTC Streetcars" rather than "Transit City Lines."

 

[ShonTron]

I agree, and was shocked to see this in the Star. I really think that other LRT systems in Ontario should go with the standard gauge, but in Toronto, it made sense for several reasons: not only connectivity with the legacy network (ie St. Clair extension, Lakeshore West), but also so both could have heavy work done in one place (such as Hillcrest) without two separate lines for each network.

Steve Munro does not expect a Jane LRT to go south of Eglinton (becoming a branch of the E-C line), at least in the medium-term as south of there is a right-of-way quagmire (not that it's all that fun through Mount Dennis or the east side of Weston), so this seems to fit his theory.

If a St. Clair extension was built (and I think it ought to go to Jane Street for now), it and Lakeshore would be part of the legacy network. I think that's clear.

 

[Justin10000]

The power on TC lines will be 750V DC, no? They would not be able to use legacy streetcar tracks either way.