Transit City Gauge

[nfitz]

But you can't compare with an all high-floor GM bus. The era of high floor buses and LRVs are over due to modern accessibility requirements. The only fair comparisons is between different designs of low-floor buses and LRVs (unless we build high platforms, but that's not likely to happen), and I'll take a partial low-floor over a full low-floor any day of the week.

I'm comparing the functionality of the space; not the high versus low-floor. I'm not 100% convinced that the buses are even as wide, on the inside, as they used to be. I never recall sticking out in the aisle as much, with 2 people side by side, as you do with the new buses. I'm 5'8" 160 lbs, very average. 32" waist, medium size, and I just don't fit in those narrow seats!

There must be someone who can design a better layout!

 

[ShonTron]

You mean like Van Hool? The VIVA 40-foot buses cram the seats in by raising the seats over the wheelwells (though requiring a step up from the aisle), but accomodating both the disabled and crushloads with the jump seats in the middle.

 

[CDL.TO]

Given how much of a disaster the partial low-floor buses are, I can't imagine they would go back to the mixed height vehicles

I'm comparing the functionality of the space; not the high versus low-floor.

Uh huh. In a discussion about floor height, you say you're not talking about the floor height?
`

 

[EnviroTO]

The VanHool buses do remain 100% low floor for the aisle but most of the seats are up a step which defeats the purpose a bit (i.e. elderly still need to step up). I think the reason the Orions seem smaller than the old GM New Looks is that the engine compartment takes up space and the GMs didn't waste the space over the front wheel. The upright engine compartment likely makes servicing easier but if they jammed the engine under the raise back floor they could put in a row of seats. The front wheel could have seats on them but they would need to face backward to allow space for the step up because a step up into the aisle would make the aisle too narrow for a wheelchair. They can't push the front wheels forward and rear wheels backward without negatively impacting the turning radius.

So that is the problem. To have a low floor bus using the space over the wheels requires steps, steps in the aisle block wheelchairs, and current fare system requires wheelchair entry at front door which means passing between the two front wheel wells. In addition, upright engine compartment takes space at the back of the bus.

 

[kettal]

Gary Webster, the TTC's acting chief general manager, admitted staff made mistakes when they designed the buses.

"We have to recognize that we went too far," Mr. Webster said. "The seats are too tight and a lot of members of the public can't use them."

Mr. Webster said it is difficult to move seats on existing vehicles but the problem can likely be solved before additional buses are built.

"We can't easily reconfigure the seats without disturbing the heat ducts below and exposing what's below," Mr. Webster said. "There isn't anything we can do to retrofit what we have, so what we're talking is our next orders."

The solution could involve adjusting the layout of seats or making them thinner, Mr. Moscoe said. "I think we might be able to do it without reducing seats by re-engineering the upper deck."

from a few years ago.

 

[nfitz]

Uh huh. In a discussion about floor height, you say you're not talking about the floor height?

I'm simply saying that the comment about the functionality of the upper deck, wasn't related, in particular, to the height. I'd have the same comments if a completely raised bus had that kind of layout behind the rear door, or of a completely low-floor one.

It reminds me of the layout you used to see in the front half of buses, when you used to simply have two rows of double seats. Though it's been about 30 years since I last saw that configuration ... on a Montreal bus.

 

[Inkarnate]

Report on the St. Clair ROW and its effects on Transit City:

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co.../Jan_20_2010/Reports/Transit_City_Impleme.pdf

I really hope what happened with St. Clair doesn't happen with the LRT routes...

 

[Dan416]

Report on the St. Clair ROW and its effects on Transit City:

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co.../Jan_20_2010/Reports/Transit_City_Impleme.pdf

I really hope what happened with St. Clair doesn't happen with the LRT routes...

It's not like any of them are true LRT anyway (except Eglinton). Not if when you think of LRT you think of Calgary and not, say, St. Clair. Although the definition for LRT is so muddled you could just call the entire Toronto streetcar network LRT and probably get away with it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If Transit City will be using standard gauge and the streetcars will continue to use TTC gauge, then the TC fleet will never run downtown. It also means that they are no longer bound by the current width restriction of the CLRV streetcar fleet (2.54 m). There are light rail fleets, in Europe, that have a width of 2.64 m or more. Having light rail vehicles that are 10 cm wider should not cause much of a problem when they are on their own right-of-way.

For comparison, Toronto's heavy rail subway cars are 3.134 m wide, and Montréal's Metro trains are 2.5 m wide. The Brussels streetcars, being demonstrated in Vancouver, are 2.3 m wide. The maximum bus width is 2.59 m.