Toronto Yonge Sheppard Centre Renovations and Expansion | 123.13m | 35s | RioCan | BDP Quadrangle

I disagree with Sunny
What do you mean this areas demographic doesnt like patios? How are they different?
I for instance would love to see a nicely set up patio like that of jack astors and cafe landwer which we so lack of and is doing very well in the neighborhood
 
@Northern Light , I'll bet my bottom dollar - at the exact time the previous photo of empty curbside CafeTO was taken on a sunny day at lunch time,... every patio on the Danforth was packed! Why? Demographics! Two totally different market,... two totally different ethnic market!

Willowdale has a high Asian demographic,....
- 2021 of Willowdale's 117,125 total and 71.0% Visible Minority: Chinese 29,655 (25.3%), West Asian 12,865 (11.0%), Korean 11,555 (9.9%), South Asian 8,865 (7.6%), Filipino 7,590 (6.5%)
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-...st=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2013A000435115
Note: Iranian (nationality) 10,370 + Persian (ethnicity) 3,695 = 14065/117,125 = 12.0% of Willowdale
Almost 60% of Willowdale residents are Asian, this means over 60% are from cultures that value "Skin Whitening! Oh, and this diversity is even higher within and closer to the high-density Yonge Corridor condo area!

For Asians,... whiter skin is beauty standards, social status as darker skin means working in fields, whatever but,.. Asian females are like Draculas! They'll avoid the sun at all cost - lather up in sun block with high SPF the higher the Sun Protection Factor the better! Carry open umbrellas in blazing sun, wear large brim hats, use skin whitening cream/powder, etc,... and with Asian females avoiding outdoor patios? This is why Curbside CafeTO failed in Willowdale,... if you can't get the Asian females out there, the Asian guys aren't going to spend money to be by themselves!

Look at this map of Google Search Results for "Sun Tanning VS Skin Whitening" by countries:
1672169913256.png

source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/jxsne4

The local BIA were still perplex as to why they wasted so much money in the first year (2021) on planters and flowers for empty CafeTO patios,... I finally explained this to the local BIA last summer during a weekend Korean fest at Mel Lastman Square,.. and they finally understood because during the day - the outdoor venue wasn't too busy, but at night the place would be packed especially the Food Market.

Oh,.. and in case you're wondering why all those Asian Night Food Market events are so popular - at night,.. well, now you know!

Here in North York Centre, there's predominately Asian Restaurants and also non-Asian restaurants,... the non-Asian restaurants like Cafe Landwer targets a less Asian market,... but with Cactus Club being more of an higher Asian-fusion type restaurant,... good luck with the empty patio!
 
sunnyraytoronto said:
@Northern Light , I'll bet my bottom dollar - at the exact time the previous photo of empty curbside CafeTO was taken on a sunny day at lunch time,... every patio on the Danforth was packed! Why? Demographics! Two totally different market,... two totally different ethnic market!

Willowdale has a high Asian demographic,....
- 2021 of Willowdale's 117,125 total and 71.0% Visible Minority: Chinese 29,655 (25.3%), West Asian 12,865 (11.0%), Korean 11,555 (9.9%), South Asian 8,865 (7.6%), Filipino 7,590 (6.5%)
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-...st=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2013A000435115
Note: Iranian (nationality) 10,370 + Persian (ethnicity) 3,695 = 14065/117,125 = 12.0% of Willowdale
Almost 60% of Willowdale residents are Asian, this means over 60% are from cultures that value "Skin Whitening! Oh, and this diversity is even higher within and closer to the high-density Yonge Corridor condo area!

For Asians,... whiter skin is beauty standards, social status as darker skin means working in fields, whatever but,.. Asian females are like Draculas! They'll avoid the sun at all cost - lather up in sun block with high SPF the higher the Sun Protection Factor the better! Carry open umbrellas in blazing sun, wear large brim hats, use skin whitening cream/powder, etc,... and with Asian females avoiding outdoor patios? This is why Curbside CafeTO failed in Willowdale,... if you can't get the Asian females out there, the Asian guys aren't going to spend money to be by themselves!

Look at this map of Google Search Results for "Sun Tanning VS Skin Whitening" by countries:
View attachment 447356
source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/jxsne4

The local BIA were still perplex as to why they wasted so much money in the first year (2021) on planters and flowers for empty CafeTO patios,... I finally explained this to the local BIA last summer during a weekend Korean fest at Mel Lastman Square,.. and they finally understood because during the day - the outdoor venue wasn't too busy, but at night the place would be packed especially the Food Market.

Oh,.. and in case you're wondering why all those Asian Night Food Market events are so popular - at night,.. well, now you know!

Here in North York Centre, there's predominately Asian Restaurants and also non-Asian restaurants,... the non-Asian restaurants like Cafe Landwer targets a less Asian market,... but with Cactus Club being more of an higher Asian-fusion type restaurant,... good luck with the empty patio!
Click to expand...

Interesting supposition.

Assuming we accepted the basic premise, it would immediately beg the question though of why patios wouldn't do well from sunset on. Danforth patios never hop more than late on Fridays and Saturdays, filled to the brim.

Off-street patios can also be shaded, in part or in full by pergolas, awnings, umbrellas or even large vegetation.

On-street, are more of a challenge, though, many of those options do exist, particularly for building-side, as opposed to curb-side.

****

Cactus is based out of Vancouver where they have far more locations than here, and that is a very Asian influenced marketplace, surely their experience there would inform their design choices here? I don't know that as I haven't had that discussion w/anyone at CC, but it certainly seems like a reasonable thought.

****

Suffice to say, while I don't doubt that the influences you describe exist and may have some effect on market-size for the patio culture, I will maintain that Cafe TO on Yonge was problematic from day one and would have been irrespective of the demos of the area for the reasons I stated above. Just not a good patio experience.

Also, I think any fair comparison would ask how those same restos were doing with dine-in business at lunch during the same period, given WFH trends, and ongoing Covid concerns and so on.
 
I work on Yonge Street here. Refuse to sit on a patio next to the "freeway". Not an enjoyable experience. Maybe once they widen the sidewalks and push the road away.
 
I woulnd't mind if it's a second floor terrace. In some case that may actually have advantage over roadside patios.
 
I believe this is a patio on top of the second floor of the yonge sheppard center overlooking the yonge sheppard intersection. This is not a on road patio
 
Karismarian said:
Does anybody know why there is no starbucks at yonge and sheppard? Its mind boggling how Yonge sheppard doesnt have a good sized location looks like a big loss on opportunity
Click to expand...
There is a Starbucks inside the Longos; unless you are speaking of a standalone store.
 
11th said:
There is a Starbucks inside the Longos; unless you are speaking of a standalone store.
Click to expand...
Typically, the SecondCup at RioCan YongeSheppardCentre (which has been there since previous SheppardCentre iteration) would have contract with Mall Management to forbid competitors (like Starbucks),... but apparently a Starbucks kiosk inside Longos is a way to get around that.

The stand-alone Starbucks inside Yonge-Sheppard TTC Subway Station closed, as well as the stand-alone Starbucks at southeast corner of Yonge&Avondale,... as well as the Oliva Cafe at northeast corner of Yonge&Avondale and also the Oliva Cafe inside Proctor&Gamble building,... all closed near start of Pandemic,... obviously, not much demand for coffee in this area,... but bubble tea shops keep spreading like weed,...
 
Was at Longo’s yesterday and was able to take a look into the Cactus Club space from the checkout area. I’m not entirely sure what is going on but there’s no signs of construction and the space is still empty.
 
yrt+viva=1system said:
Was at Longo’s yesterday and was able to take a look into the Cactus Club space from the checkout area. I’m not entirely sure what is going on but there’s no signs of construction and the space is still empty.
Click to expand...
That place had a sign it will open 2020 fall but it was empty fot half a decade anyone know whats going on here??
 
People's love of coffee infused liquid dessert knows no bounds. Let's face it, 90% of Starbucks patrons don't actually order the coffee. A friend was puzzled why I didn't like Starbucks. I finally gave in and went with him. When I ordered a coffee he was absolutely horrified and said. "you can't order that, it's disgusting!' ..... which I knew already.
 
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