Toronto Yonge Sheppard Centre Renovations and Expansion | 123.13m | 35s | RioCan | BDP Quadrangle

[kingkam]

I can almost guarantee it won't last more than a year !

If they moved this cactus club to Yonge/Egg it would do VERY well. Yonge/Sheppard area vibe isn't that great. I've lived in this area for going on 6 years now. My wife and I are always making our way down to Yonge/Egg for a much better vibe.


I hope it does well but not going to hold my breath.

 

[taal]

If they moved this cactus club to Yonge/Egg it would do VERY well. Yonge/Sheppard area vibe isn't that great. I've lived in this area for going on 6 years now. My wife and I are always making our way down to Yonge/Egg for a much better vibe.


I hope it does well but not going to hold my breath.

I was thinking more about my comment and the only counter example I have is the Keg, which I believe does really well, so maybe it's hard to say, I still suspect it will not do well here.

That's a very interesting perspective comparing the areas As we did the opposite i.e. we lived in Y&E and moved here ~ 5 years ago.

I really think it depends what you mean the "vibe isn't that great". In some ways I'd argue it's more vibrant than Y&E as strange as it sounds. I've found it always has more activity, and retail (of a certain type, I'll get to this in a minute) tends to do a lot better in NYCC when compared to Y&E where it struggles more, particularly once you venture a little north or south on Yonge.

Most nights you'll find NYCC pretty active all the way from Finch down to Sheppard, whereas in Y&E there's just a smaller pocket at the main intersection. I do have a theory behind that as well, I think the demographic at NYCC on the whole eats out a lot more than the demographic at Y&E, hence more activity and restaurants and the like tend to do better.


With that said diversity in retail is the major issue in NYCC I find. So if the dominant retail type is not your cup of tea that is a huge negative against NYCC without a doubt.

The other thing I appreciate about NYCC is the number of smaller parks / parkettes packed in the area (bounded by Doris and Becroft), there are just so many here. Whereas in Y&E there is a lot less green space in the immediate vicinity. Now in Y&E if you are willing to venture out a little further you are closer to a lot more major ravines and the like (belt line, ...).

 

[Northern Light]

I was thinking more about my comment and the only counter example I have is the Keg, which I believe does really well, so maybe it's hard to say, I still suspect it will not do well here.

That's a very interesting perspective comparing the areas As we did the opposite i.e. we lived in Y&E and moved here ~ 5 years ago.

I really think it depends what you mean the "vibe isn't that great". In some ways I'd argue it's more vibrant than Y&E as strange as it sounds. I've found it always has more activity, and retail (of a certain type, I'll get to this in a minute) tends to do a lot better in NYCC when compared to Y&E where it struggles more, particularly once you venture a little north or south on Yonge.

Most nights you'll find NYCC pretty active all the way from Finch down to Sheppard, whereas in Y&E there's just a smaller pocket at the main intersection. I do have a theory behind that as well, I think the demographic at NYCC on the whole eats out a lot more than the demographic at Y&E, hence more activity and restaurants and the like tend to do better.


With that said diversity in retail is the major issue in NYCC I find. So if the dominant retail type is not your cup of tea that is a huge negative against NYCC without a doubt.

The other thing I appreciate about NYCC is the number of smaller parks / parkettes packed in the area (bounded by Doris and Becroft), there are just so many here. Whereas in Y&E there is a lot less green space in the immediate vicinity. Now in Y&E if you are willing to venture out a little further you are closer to a lot more major ravines and the like (belt line, ...).

If I were to compare the two areas, I would tend to favour Y&E, more in the past than now, but still.

The first difference to me is simply walking the proverbial main street (Yonge in both cases); Yonge at Eg. being 2 lanes each way, instead of 3 (plus median); the walk doesn't feel as 'highway'ish' at Eg as at Sheppard.

The second difference I would highlight, historically, is the number of nice sit-down restos. Y&E still has Grazie in its favour, though I will say, I miss Amore and Oliver's from earlier eras.

If you enjoy books, you've got the good sized Indigo at Eglinton, no major bookstores at NYCC that I can recall.

I used to really like Midtown for the movie scene, with the York, Eglinton, Capitol, Canada Square, and then Silver City. You could always find interesting, high quality cinema; and you had the reps over on Mt. Pleasant nearby as well.,
That bit has sadly gone by the wayside, with only the Yonge-Eglinton Ctr cinema and the Reps remaining.

NYCC has a good selection of major grocers at this point; but not so much in the way independent Butchers/Bakers and Green Grocers, as I recall.

NYCC does lead in culturally diverse offerings in terms of East Asian and Persian offerings in particular, but they tend to be more in the fast casual space than the fine dining.

 

[11th]

I was thinking more about my comment and the only counter example I have is the Keg, which I believe does really well, so maybe it's hard to say, I still suspect it will not do well here.

That's a very interesting perspective comparing the areas As we did the opposite i.e. we lived in Y&E and moved here ~ 5 years ago.

I really think it depends what you mean the "vibe isn't that great". In some ways I'd argue it's more vibrant than Y&E as strange as it sounds. I've found it always has more activity, and retail (of a certain type, I'll get to this in a minute) tends to do a lot better in NYCC when compared to Y&E where it struggles more, particularly once you venture a little north or south on Yonge.

Most nights you'll find NYCC pretty active all the way from Finch down to Sheppard, whereas in Y&E there's just a smaller pocket at the main intersection. I do have a theory behind that as well, I think the demographic at NYCC on the whole eats out a lot more than the demographic at Y&E, hence more activity and restaurants and the like tend to do better.


With that said diversity in retail is the major issue in NYCC I find. So if the dominant retail type is not your cup of tea that is a huge negative against NYCC without a doubt.

The other thing I appreciate about NYCC is the number of smaller parks / parkettes packed in the area (bounded by Doris and Becroft), there are just so many here. Whereas in Y&E there is a lot less green space in the immediate vicinity. Now in Y&E if you are willing to venture out a little further you are closer to a lot more major ravines and the like (belt line, ...).

A lot of night owls at NYCC, and they aren't the type who does the club scene or bar hops. That's why casual diners usually do well.

 

[AlbertC]

Yonge Sheppard Centre | BDP Quadrangle

Quadrangle Architects Limited is among Canada’s most dynamic architectural firms with a diversified client list that includes major players in the media, residential, commercial and hospitality industry.

www.bdpquadrangle.com

 

[Karismarian]

Does anyone know when or will thr Cactus club Cafe ever open ? It's been like years??

 

[lead82]

I don’t think it will. The demographics and vibe isn’t there for the area. Cactus club is a post office high end place. With post COVID Hybrid mode there simply isn’t a big enough office population to sustain it there.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Even pre-pandemic,... Offices in North York Centre are mainly Government Offices and Back-End Offices - not the high roller office expense account type! And the one local Hotel, the North York Novotel is 1km away!

Cactus Club is less high-end in Vancouver,..

Anyways, Cactus Club currently plans to open, remains "optimistic" about this location and is just pushing back their Opening Day,.. again.

Yonge Sheppard Centre Renovations and Expansion | 123.13m | 35s | RioCan | BDP Quadrangle

Copper Branch, in the food court has left the building. They were open a couple of days ago and today it's a completely empty unit. Every piece of equipment is gone. Who's next?

urbantoronto.ca

 

[Northern Light]

Cactus Club is less high-end in Vancouver,..Anyways,

They have seven locations in Vancouver proper alone, a population roughly akin to the old City of Toronto

If you add in immediately abutting inner-burbs (Richmond, North Van. Delta, Surrey, Burnaby) you're up to 14

Compare that to Toronto at a mere 2 to date. If they achieved the same market penetration per capita in Toronto you'd be well over 30 locations.

I'd expect they'd have to adjust their price point and market-image if they wanted to achieve that. Not sure what the rollout plan is here.

Cactus Club currently plans to open, remains "optimistic" about this location and is just pushing back their Opening Day,.. again.

Their FCP location took a seeming eternity to open, it amazed me and amazes me how they must eat rent costs for lunch taking months or years to do fit-out.

 

[taal]

Personally I don't think it'll do well here for all the reasons cited. With that said I didn't think the Keg would either, yet, it seems to be pretty busy, so hard to say. But it's not quite the same, neither is the target audience.

 

[Karismarian]

The keg and the cafe landwer is doing so well i dont see why cactus would flop? Theres actually no competition like cactus club in the nearby areas closest one i can think of is jack astors?

 

[taal]

cafe landwer must be making a killing, it's always nearly full, all times of day, 7 days a week, with lineups most weekends for brunch (more so in the summer).

I think the location of cactus club will not work in its favor either, being inside at the top of the mall.

 

[Karismarian]

cafe landwer must be making a killing, it's always nearly full, all times of day, 7 days a week, with lineups most weekends for brunch (more so in the summer).

I think the location of cactus club will not work in its favor either, being inside at the top of the mall.

I dont know the cactus location will probably have the largest outdoor secondfloor patio overseeing the sheppard avenue which would be the only one around the area why would it flop? I think alot of the young professionals around the area will hang out

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The area's previous Councillor brought curbside CafeTO to Yonge St a couple summers ago (2021 & 2022),... how did that work out? The only CafeTO north of Highway 401 - it had a monopoly north of Highway 401 - and it still failed miserably! Vast majority of restaurants that participated in first year (2021), refused to do so again in second year (2022)! About 80% smaller in second year and mainly just the BIA's patio area!

2021 image of the previous Councillor in front of local curbside CafeTO,.. empty curbside CafeTO!,.. empty at lunch time!,... notice the short shadows and guy walking by carrying his lunch in paper bag and pop!

This area's demographic don't like outdoor patios!

 

[Northern Light]

The area's previous Councillor brought curbside CafeTO to Yonge St a couple summers ago (2021 & 2022),... how did that work out? The only CafeTO north of Highway 401 - it had a monopoly north of Highway 401 - and it still failed miserably! Vast majority of restaurants that participated in first year (2021), refused to do so again in second year (2022)! About 80% smaller in second year and mainly just the BIA's patio area!

2021 image of the previous Councillor in front of local curbside CafeTO,.. empty curbside CafeTO!,.. empty at lunch time!,... notice the short shadows and guy walking by carrying his lunch in paper bag and pop!
View attachment 447354

This area's demographic don't like outdoor patios!

With great respect @sunnyraytoronto , rarely do we disagree so meaningfully. I take your area expertise seriously, as you well know. But I've spent time up in this area and seen more than one patio full to the brim, particularly Cafe Landwer's.

The CafeTO example you cite is a different animal. The curb lane of a six-lane, congestion soaked road is not at all comparable to a patio that is setback from the road with a row of trees and/or other streetscaping separating it from the road.

Toronto's patios are filled with people of every demographic background, the enjoyment of them, when well designed and sited, and when in service of an otherwise popular eating establishment is generally quite high.

I don't accept that there is any reason patios writ large would not be hugely successful here.

Cactus Club may or may not be, there track record here, is frankly too limited as yet, with only 2 locations, to establish that. I'm frankly not taken w/them, but that's me, not a general expression of their market, I can't stand McDs, but to my utter dismay others still patronize it. LOL