Electrify
Senior Member
It will never happen, but I'd say the best thing they could do is build a second express tunnel under Yonge, with spaced out stops to handle excess demand and to ensure longer commutes are more efficient.
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
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Fresh Start
Banned
OR... they could simply straighten out and electrify the Bala subdivision permitting EMUs to run between Richmond Hill GO and Union Station with stops en route at Hillcrest (16th), Langstaff (RHC Terminal), Thornhill (Bayview/John), German Mills (Steeles), Old Cummer (Finch), Oriole (Sheppard), Silver Hills (York Mills), Don Mills Ctr (Donway, n. of Lawrence), Wilket Creek via Seaton Sub (Leslie/Eglinton), Leaside (Laird/Millwood), Castle Frank (Bloor-Danforth), West Don Lands (Queen), Distillery (Parliament).
De facto DRL eastern leg on the cheap! Make the fare schema the same as YRT's eliminating the double fares, and we'd witness a dramatic decline in 905 residents boarding the Yonge Line in order to commute to/from workplaces downtown.
Electrify
Senior Member
I was thinking more specifically who live and work along the Yonge corridor within Toronto. Case in point, while the Yonge line is bursting as the seems, the Spadina line offers plenty of extra room in comparison. If people won't travel west to the Spadina line, how can we be sure they will travel east to a Don Mills line?
Also, that is far too many stops to add in for the Richmond Hill line. Additional stops at Eglinton, Queen, and maybe Lawrence and Leaside is all that is necessary. And Castle Frank is a no starter for obvious reasons (unless we elevate the rail up the valley, then it could work in favour of Queen).
Also, that is far too many stops to add in for the Richmond Hill line. Additional stops at Eglinton, Queen, and maybe Lawrence and Leaside is all that is necessary. And Castle Frank is a no starter for obvious reasons (unless we elevate the rail up the valley, then it could work in favour of Queen).
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I agree with Electrify. Actually, I think I said it earlier in this thread, it might actually be useful to have a RER-like line right under Yonge and ditch the Richmond Hill line altogether. Have a stop at Union, B-Y, Eglinton, Sheppard and Richmond Hill? It'd have plenty of uses.
EDIT: Not that it'd ever come before a Don Mills subway or any number of alleviating transit improvements. But depending on the cost, I think it could be better than regional-ifying the RH line.
EDIT: Not that it'd ever come before a Don Mills subway or any number of alleviating transit improvements. But depending on the cost, I think it could be better than regional-ifying the RH line.
Paleo
Active Member
This is just the latest in a line of your nonsense.
1) Adding that many stops would increase the running time of the line significantly and it would no longer be an express which is what it should be used for: RER.
2) Have you actually looked at those places? Particularly those helpful stations that you suggested putting 150-200 feet below in the Don Valley. Really useful there.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
That would do very little to take 905ers off the Yonge line. It wouldn't be faster, for one thing. It would be a longer trip for most people. Yes, that GO line needs to be improved, but anyone remotely familiar with this city (and not just familiar with maps of this city) will know that in no way does it replace the Yonge line or substitute for improvements like ATC on Yonge, or a Yonge extension, or a DRL, and so on.
Once the Spadina extension is finished, few people west of there would continue over to Yonge, and a DRL up Don Mills would intercept most people at and east of Don Mills (which is a huge number of people). Slash much of the ridership of Steeles East/West, Finch East/West, Sheppard, York Mills, Lawrence, Eglinton, and a dozen other smaller routes, and it'll make a big dent in the Yonge line's ridership. Yes, the Bathurst/Yonge/Bayview corridor will likely always gravitate to Yonge, but we can divert enough people from farther out from Yonge to let ridership really grow along Yonge. Probably 100,000 riders could be diverted, easily. We'll never get the Yonge line crowd-free, though...ridership on Yonge will grow to fill in that new space, though, through modal growth, condo growth, 905 growth, the Yonge extension, etc. We need to accept that it will always be crowded and capacity improvements on Yonge and new transit elsewhere are not being done to fix crowding issues but to expand ridership everywhere and benefit the overall city.
edit - oh, and by 2020, the Spadina line north of St. George will be just as overcrowded as the other 3 lines (Bloor, Danforth, Yonge). It's a complete myth that there's oodles of room on Spadina right now, and once it's extended, the modest amount of available space will be filled quickly. Developments between Downsview and Hwy 7, a good 10,000+ riders on Finch West diverted from Yonge on Day 1, thousands of park'n'riders, some also diverted from Yonge, modal growth in the 905, etc. The Spadina line is already comfortably full, but since this is Toronto, there's something wrong with the line because it's not hopelessly overcrowded.
And a big reason why people along Bathurst/Yonge/Bayview don't go over to the Spadina line is because it is such a hassle. It can be incredibly annoying. The Eglinton bus can take half an hour...you can walk quicker. There is no way to get there along Finch or Steeles without multiple transfers. Lawrence's traffic isn't too bad but it can be rough in terms of wait times, often because the buses get very out of synch with the schedule due to issues farther west. Sheppard/196 buses are sometimes good but sometimes unpredictable and traffic/schedule muckups can be an issue there...they seem to be worse than they were a few years ago. It's easy enough on St. Clair, but at that point you're so close to the YUS loop that why bother? It turns out that the only reliable way to get from Yonge to Spadina is the Wilson/Weston combo bus, so no wonder few people divert themselves.
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Chuck
Senior Member
Why should 905ers not use the Yonge line? Anyone living on or near Yonge, whether it be north or south of Steeles, is best suited to use the Yonge subway. The reason why the line is overcrowded is because portions north of Bloor carry much of eastern North York and western Scarborough, while portions south of Bloor serve the entire GTA. At most 10 or 20 thousand poeple from York Region ride the Yonge line all the way downtown each day. They are hardly to blame for the overcrowding on the busiest sections.
Dan416
Senior Member
It's the lack of subway development in this city which has filled up Yonge. The Eastern DRL would help a lot. So would finishing Sheppard and Danforth.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
I agree, but Fresh Start was blaming them, not me. The Spadina extension and a DRL up Don Mills will divert more riders off Yonge than the Richmond Hill GO line ever could (though GO, in general, could also get a lot of riders off long-distance TTC feeder bus routes, like Steeles East, and onto something else potentially less overcrowded and potentially quicker than stuff like a Steeles to Yonge commute).
Fresh Start
Banned
Was the personal attack really necessary?
I hope you feel like crap to know that what I was suggesting is based on a long-held proposal by GO Transit :
It's a sound idea and it won't cost the taxpayer billions of dollars to implement either. You seem to want unwarranted subways at the expense of depriving more congested areas their opportunity at getting one. At 2 kilometre apart average spacing it's on par with the outer portions of the subway system, essentially an express commuter line vs. local service, and we could treat the stop locations same as we do existing subway bus terminals. Like Scarberian suggests, passengers heading inbound towards the Yonge Line intercepting this line first could transfer off early; diverting tens of thousands elsewhere from Richmond Hill, Markham, North York and Scarborough. At average 3 minute intervals between stops, the entire length of time it'd take to get from Langstaff Gateway/RHC to Union Station would only be 33 minutes including stopovers. Compare that to the projected 45 minute commute via using the Yonge Line from RHC. Oh and it need not require the double fare for York Region travellers either if the Richmond Hill REX line were to be fare-intergrated. Oh and something tells me, that even the installation of 2-4 high-speed elevators linking the valley floor to the subway above at Castle Frank would still be a heck of a lot cheaper than a $5 billion boondoogle. They've proposed similar in Montreal for connecting Édouard-Montpetit Stn to the Montreal—Deux Montagnes commuter rail line 50 feet below.
We here in Toronto are only limited by our myopic tunnel vision obsession with thinking in binaries, rather than embracing novel ideas. I never suggested this as an absolute alternative to a DRL or Yonge extension, but I'd rather have rapid service to Richmond Hill and to all points in between up and running within the next five years than wait decades to fund subways running through low-density Thornhill.
Asterix
Active Member
If I understand your proposed route description, you might want to take note that the track from the split at Bond Park, down to Eglinton and Leslie has been taken out and is now being developed as a walking trail.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...=16faJLl8U36Qhm5tsleFkw&cbp=12,178.02,,0,0.46
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Though if you had actually read a word I posted, you'd know that this won't do much to relieve Yonge and in no way is it a substitute for a Yonge extension. What percentage of Yonge riders will be going from Richmond Hill Centre to Union, anyway? 2%? 1%? GO is basically useless for most of the other 98-99%. Richmond Hill GO alone is not Yonge's saviour. A thousand people waiting for elevators at Castle Frank would be the definition of boondoggle.
Your entire knowledge of Toronto seems to come from maps...not even satellite photos or Flickr pics, just maps.
canoe
New Member
From Thornhill Liberal newspaper:
"...Tuesday, the regional transit authority reviewed the framework being used to evaluate priority transit projects, including the $2.4-bilion extension of the Yonge subway up to Hwy.7 ....The idea is to have plans finalized by February so the province can take that into account when laying out its planned 10-years infrustruction plan for the spring budget, Metrolinx president and chief executive officer Bruce McCuaig said.
The Yonge extention is competing with light rail transit projects in Hamilton and Brampton...Yonge Street, north of Finch, is already facing perpetual gridlock in the peak period, the report states, pointing out 370 buses a day-in average of one every 30 seconds - travel the stretch....Project prioritizations has been in the work since June. Municipalities were consulted on the methodology and it was peer reviewd by a panel of transit experts. Having a quantitative assessment of each project's value gives the province information upon which to base its decisions when funding does arrive..."
"...Tuesday, the regional transit authority reviewed the framework being used to evaluate priority transit projects, including the $2.4-bilion extension of the Yonge subway up to Hwy.7 ....The idea is to have plans finalized by February so the province can take that into account when laying out its planned 10-years infrustruction plan for the spring budget, Metrolinx president and chief executive officer Bruce McCuaig said.
The Yonge extention is competing with light rail transit projects in Hamilton and Brampton...Yonge Street, north of Finch, is already facing perpetual gridlock in the peak period, the report states, pointing out 370 buses a day-in average of one every 30 seconds - travel the stretch....Project prioritizations has been in the work since June. Municipalities were consulted on the methodology and it was peer reviewd by a panel of transit experts. Having a quantitative assessment of each project's value gives the province information upon which to base its decisions when funding does arrive..."
junctionist
Senior Member
That's all interesting to read. It doesn't mention that the DRL will probably have to be built first because we're not going to take further overcrowding and the our very limited network! Now we've elected a guy who, for all his simplistic thinking on most issues, realizes that Toronto has a extremely well-used subway network in need of expansion.
taal
Senior Member
Unfortunately I have a feeling this is going to push off very far ... 10-15 years to start ... at the earliest. And with that the DRL most likely as well (if it even get's built).