Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Ansem]

That would be crazy. It would be much better to take people out of the subway and stick them in cars on roads, so that the remaining subway riders can go in style.

Ha-ha! Very funny...

There is something you clearly don’t get...

A line that is completely overcrowded is no efficient. It's not only about comfort...

Someone having to let 6 trains pass at Eglinton to go work is not efficiency. Its just bad and horrible service. There is nothing efficient in this.
When a service is not efficient, the customers tend to be unhappy,
When they’re unhappy, they lose confidence in that product (in this case the TTC)
If they lose confidence in it, they will find alternative.

So to please people like you, you would have 416 commuters get so fed up, they would turn to their cars instead.

Remember that the TTC main mandate is to serve Torontonians 1st. I’m not against an extension in York but the Toronto network needs to be improved so it can absorb the extra commuters from 905.

Personally, They should just increase the RH Go or convert it like the Paris RER(Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RER)
**Lakeshore line plus York Go Line should use the RER concept**
Metrolinx should have the initiative to explore that idea.

Stops in North York, Mid Town and downtown should do the trick.

At 300M$ per KM, Subways should go to underserved neighborhood within Toronto before leaving the city. (Cough…New York, Chicago etc)

Metrolinx is reponsible for the GTA (not the TTC)

Unless Toronto do what Montreal did:

-The Metro has been recognized as a metropolitain equipment or service.

All surrounding cities in The Montreal Metropolitain (Subway stations or not) have to pay compensations to help the STM with their operating fees.
The suburb cities recognized that their citizens were using the metro as well and agreed to this principle.

Unless I have it all wrong, that's not the case of the TTC who get's 95% of its revenue through fares alone. So their mandate is within Toronto.

 

[unimaginative2]

The Yonge line is extremely busy all the way up to Finch. It's pretty much the most blindingly obvious subway extension on the continent. The congestion problem is severe, though, and it's obviously more than just a south-of-Bloor issue. The only solution is a DRL that goes all the way up Don Mills. That will intercept riders coming from the eastern part of the city, freeing up the Yonge line to serve its immediate corridor and points north. The DRL and Don Mills line are a fantastic plan that would relieve the overcrowded subway, and dramatically improve service to the eastern parts of the city. Riders on Lawrence East, York Mills and other routes will be able to save at least 20 minutes each way on their trips by getting off the bus and on to the subway at Don Mills rather than all the way over at Yonge.

The TTC doesn't get 95% of its revenues from the farebox, it's closer to 80%, but that just proves the point that it's riders, whether from the 905 or the 416, rather than Toronto taxpayers who are footing most of the bill. That's not to say that I wouldn't love to see transit funded regionally so that we can get over these ridiculous artificial municipal boundaries.

 

[Second_in_pie]

It would be totally awesome if Go became a RER-like service. It would obviously start with Lakeshore, but I think the obvious second choice would be Richmond Hill. If Richmond Hill had service like the RER, we wouldn't need a Subway extension for at least 30 years. It would be useful, but definitely not needed.
Then, there would be an excuse to bury the line through downtown Toronto, and the rail line along there is much more of a barrier than the Gardniner. It would be great, and it sounds like something that could come out of Metrolinx becoming a more powerful entity.

 

[Ansem]

The Yonge line is extremely busy all the way up to Finch. It's pretty much the most blindingly obvious subway extension on the continent. The congestion problem is severe, though, and it's obviously more than just a south-of-Bloor issue. The only solution is a DRL that goes all the way up Don Mills. That will intercept riders coming from the eastern part of the city, freeing up the Yonge line to serve its immediate corridor and points north. The DRL and Don Mills line are a fantastic plan that would relieve the overcrowded subway, and dramatically improve service to the eastern parts of the city. Riders on Lawrence East, York Mills and other routes will be able to save at least 20 minutes each way on their trips by getting off the bus and on to the subway at Don Mills rather than all the way over at Yonge.

In an ideal world The DRl would go up to Sheppard. But realistically, DRL could stop at Eglinton East and instead of wondering waht to do with Don Mills LRT near Danforth, they could just stop it at Eglinton as well.

The Don Mills LRT (I think) would be fast enough to make people use it to the DRL at Eglinton.

Eglinton East Station hub
-Don Mills LRT
-Eglinton Crosstown
-DRL

The TTC doesn't get 95% of its revenues from the farebox, it's closer to 80%, but that just proves the point that it's riders, whether from the 905 or the 416, rather than Toronto taxpayers who are footing most of the bill. That's not to say that I wouldn't love to see transit funded regionally so that we can get over these ridiculous artificial municipal boundaries.

thanks for correcting me.

I think it's the only way to help the TTC give better subway within the city and beyond. Until then, makes no sense to go beyond steeles unless there is a regional funding from GTA cities. TTC serves Toronto first not the GTA unless the Gta helps to pay for it's operating fee.

 

[Ansem]

It would be totally awesome if Go became a RER-like service. It would obviously start with Lakeshore, but I think the obvious second choice would be Richmond Hill. If Richmond Hill had service like the RER, we wouldn't need a Subway extension for at least 30 years. It would be useful, but definitely not needed.
Then, there would be an excuse to bury the line through downtown Toronto, and the rail line along there is much more of a barrier than the Gardniner. It would be great, and it sounds like something that could come out of Metrolinx becoming a more powerful entity.

The RER concept will be apply to the lakeshore line.
Unless I'm wrong, their plan said that it would be electrified and run every 15 mins (rush hours I supposed) and off peak would be maybe 30 minutes or less.

They should do it for York Lines as well. I think they will go there eventually. That's why I think the Yonge and Spadina extension beyond Steeles are premature and the problem could EASILY be fixed with a better Go service.

If the GTA helps to pay the TTC operating fee, than TTC must have a regional transit fares system like in Montreal's (Opus Card).

One goes with the other. After both criteria are met, than I'll be open to subways going outside of city limits...

 

[unimaginative2]

The key to successful transit in the 905 is speed. You're never going to get the boys from Vaughan out of their bright white sports car with clumsy implementations of light rail that get stuck in romantic traffic and wind up being even slower than the old Spadina bus. We're living in an age of unprecedented transit investment. I mean, new orleans is sinking and people are finally waking up to the fact that governments need to invest in infrastructure. That's why Giambrone and light rail really are lovers in a dangerous time: we may not get this kind of spending for a long time. If we get this wrong, it could be a funeral for transit in Toronto. It's not all about subways, though. We can't extend the subway all the way up to Echo Beach. At some point, we're going to have to switch to modes that are both cheaper and faster, like regional rail which can really become the backbone of transit in the region. It's the perfect improvement for today's GTA--the high school confidential, if you will. While I'm pretty underwhelmed generally, I'm happy that Metrolinx's plans are fumbling towards ecstasy on this at least. The point is, if you want to get from neighbourhood #1 in Markham to neighbourhood #3 in Mississauga, you want to be on transit for a good time, not a long time. Otherwise you're going to be screaming save me, i'd rather be locked in the trunk of a car. You can coax me and cajole me into thinking that light rail is a decent option as a short range feeder, but Giambrone and friends oughta know that nobody is going to ride it right across the city. If I had a million dollars, the first thing I'd spend it on is regional rail--the cheapest way to bring rapid transit to the entire region. The next thing, honestly, would be some of the frills like trip planners and, if necessary, surveillance cameras. I mean, it may sound like I have my soul to sell on this point, but if it gets union concessions on other issues, I mean we're all living on video anyway, right? The biggest thing is, we need quick wins because we're falling so far behind we're losing to California at this point. Regional rail doesn't need tunnelling or anything like that. Regional rail combined with judicious subway investments the best way to get back out ahead by a century compared to the rest of North America.

 

[Edward Skira]

You had the music on as you wrote that? A whole pile of music titles popping up.

 

[ShonTron]

LOL! I noticed all the song references as well in that. Awesome!

 

[Second_in_pie]

Great points, except for this one little bit here that I disagree with:

Regional rail doesn't need tunnelling or anything like that. Regional rail combined with judicious subway investments the best way to get back out ahead by a century compared to the rest of North America.

Imagine if we completely got rid of the rail corridor through Downtown. People are talking about tunneling the Gardiner? Surely tunneling the rail corridor would be a better investment than tunneling the Gardiner, and probably less expensive too. It'd also free up a lot of development land, while the East end of the Gardiner is basically centered on Lake Shore, which isn't going anywhere.

 

[Chuck]

I think that the best thing we can do for the Richmond Hill line is treat it as its own corridor outright rather than just as an alternative to the Yonge subway. I think that it would be a neat idea to close the existing RH line north of Steeles, and run it back east again into the Beaver Creek business park. Convert the line to LRT, and provide frequent 2 way all day service.

Honestly, the Yonge corridor is meant to be served by the subway, and GO is not a good alternative for those who live and work there. However, let's upgrade the RH line into a real transit corridor, connect it to surface routes and employment nodes, and give people in the east-central part of the city a new transit line.

Here's what I mean:

 

[unimaginative2]

Imagine if we completely got rid of the rail corridor through Downtown. People are talking about tunneling the Gardiner? Surely tunneling the rail corridor would be a better investment than tunneling the Gardiner, and probably less expensive too. It'd also free up a lot of development land, while the East end of the Gardiner is basically centered on Lake Shore, which isn't going anywhere.

Heh. Oh I completely agree. I have a copy of a report done for CP back in the 80s that talks about burying the corridor. It found that it would be feasible. It would risk turning into a bit of a Big Dig, but it would be wonderful for the city.

 

[GenerationW]

The only solution is a DRL that goes all the way up Don Mills.

By all the way up, do you mean Sheppard or Steeles?

 

[unimaginative2]

I'd say Finch. The huge college complex there makes it more than worth the extra stop up from Sheppard. It would also capture transfers from the busiest bus route in the city.

 

[BMO]

i'd say atleast steeles, and if it really wanted to get interesting highway 7, but that would never happen, also it would be useful if the DRL went past dundas west up weston road and eventually all the way up to highwya 7 and weston

 

[unimaginative2]

Obviously the longer the better, but I think Finch is a pretty good compromise. You could even put in parking at the hydro corridor like the existing Finch. The key to all this is that the line should be built elevated for most or all of its length along Don Mills, which would save a fortune and not really have significant aesthetic impacts on a street that's wide and lined with set back modernist apartment blocks.