We know that they will not be contributing to the operating subsidy for the Spadina extension into their territory. The agreement there is TTC gets the fares and the expenses; but we are not expecting fares to cover the expenses.
AGREEMENT is the key word there. It's not like York Region defeated Toronto in a war and imposed reparations in a treaty. Toronto also gets the parking revenue, incidentally. But fare integration is long overdue and inevitable. Maybe what we end up with will be "unfair" in several respects but it's still silly to look at the likely operating costs of a line not opening for 10-15 years and assume the funding structure won't change.
What York Region might "offer to cover" is therefore immaterial though I don't doubt that if you put it to them, "Fine, you want the subway - you have to give us [insert reasonable number] % of operating costs," they'd figure it out. It's weird one would assume otherwise given their obvious enthusiasm for the project, despite the Spadina agreement. Ask them, then complain about it.
(And that's without getting into whether the Yonge extension will even require a subsidy. My guess is it will be more profitable than Spadina and Scarborough combined.)
That's the tired go-to in these debates: 'If you don't support the project I like, then clearly you don't support transit'. Somehow. Then there's there's the inevitable polarized fear mongering: e.g 'without 5km of subway, a regional municipality 1,800 sq km in size has no choice but to sprawl...the blood is on your hands!'.
you can't really criticize Vaughan for undermining VMC by opening the whitebelt lands - as you often and rightfully do - and then circle back and say there's no connection between failing to develop their most significant hub and increasing sprawl. You're the one who has declared VMC a failure (in the past tense, even though the subway isn't there yet) because Vaughan hasn't doubled down on it, so are they connected or not?
Hm. But Metrolinx (our regional transportation authority) took even longer. They begrudgingly acknowledged the necessity of a Relief Line several years after Toronto did, and are at least a year behind Toronto in their own planning (which is being undertaken alongside York Region).
Because Metrolinx adopted the DRL in RESPONSE to Toronto prioritizing it. It was on their long-term list in Big Move 1.0 because Toronto had it on their long-term list in that era. Its importance certainly wasn't "apparent, right from the start" to Miller/Giambrone, or even Mayor McSubway, so why blame Metrolinx?
That's how they work, incorporating municipal priorities. In the meantime, their network relief study dwarfs what Toronto has done to date and it's pretty clear that Toronto is taking the lead from them when it comes to things like "the big J." Toronto may pull ahead when all their reports come out in the next few months but you're not really following cause-effect here.
Albeit using the faster, more obvious, and more regional option of commuter rail. According to this 'logic of our Provincial planning system', so many transit users in York Region would opt for GO that by 2031 the Yonge North extension would end up with less riders than every other subway project, not to mention numerous LRT projects. And that's taking into consideration RHC/LG's growth expectations being met.
Let's start by agreeing that, for a variety of reasons, the 2031 stuff is out the window. The Yonge Extension was supposed to be opening [checks watch] within a few months when all that was done. The Transitway is also "supposed" to be open by 2023 and who knows what's going on there. And, yes, a lot of the riders from there were also expected to transfer to the subway or GO, heading south.
Obviously all the modelling is a moving target at this point.
Blaming York Region for the lack of BRT on Yonge isn't really fair. They're the ones who've been left in the lurch and obviously don't want to tear up Yonge for a patchwork solution. If they'd been told 3 years ago that no subway funding was remotely imminent and they should do LRT instead, they probably would, if grudgingly. But surely even you can see the paradox of allocating them population, having them (AND Toronto) update their Secondary/OPs and then changing the underlying premise.
(And, as I've said before - Toronto would needs its own BRT-ROW south of Steeles and that was cancelled at the same time as the north ROW, so it's not fair to act like Toronto is taking the lead, any more than YR, on coming up with an interim solution. They just don't care about north-of-Finch riders and how they get there.)
It's not Toronto's fault, because we haven't got to the crunch point where the money is there and the capacity isn't. But Toronto doesn't get a free pass for prioritizing the DRL for decades.
And seeing that the extension is York Region's #1 transit priority (but doesn't crack Toronto's top 10), it's pretty clear where to point the finger when questioning why you'll be riding a slow bus for many, many years. All the while the Yonge North BCA concluded light rail as being sufficient for the Yonge corridor and RHC/LG's growth, but was excluded from any and all debate.
We both like cherry picking bits and pieces out of reports, eh? What does the BCA say? First:
"In consultation with Metrolinx and the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) and York Region three options were identified for study in this analysis.
Option 1: Subway Extension with 6 stations
Option 2: Subway Extension with 5 stations
Option 3: Bus Rapid Transit Extension with Richmond Hill GO Line service improvement"
So, you're right no other options were considered. But that's not METROLINX - That's something Toronto agreed to.
Then, does it actually say LRT is sufficient to meet all the growth and capacity needs and is therefore an adequate solution? Shockingly - not quite.
"The forecast demand in the corridor is stretching the capacity limit of a BRT.... An LRT system could have sufficient capacity, but would mean introducing a third technology for the 6.8 km route e.g. subway to Finch station, LRT to Richmond Hill Centre and then a second transfer to the VIVA rapid bus or other bus service. The many transfers would reduce the attractiveness of the service. A new LRT option was not considered for study by the joint York Region/TTC/Metrolinx technical team as the corridor was designated for a subway extension in The Big Move."
So, yes, we circle back to the Province wagging the dog a bit, but we also have exactly what I've said multiple times. It COULD have enough capacity but at a cost. Since creating a "seamless" system is a key part of The Big Move, that's not surprising it got ditched.
But, FWIW, I agree with you it should have been in the analysis. But that ship has sailed and I wasn't at the table. Unless I'm Alan Shefman, in which case perhaps I was...
Thanks for posting these numbers. Wouldn't it make sense to also include the numbers from the TTC buses on Yonge that also feed Finch station? That would give a fairer comparison in my opinion.
I'm not a familiar with this route as I use to be but surely Viva isn't the only transit service feeding Finch station.
It's not remotely the only service. Maybe someone has the precise numbers but I know the number of combined YRT + TTC buses going into Finch averages over 100 an hour.
