W. K. Lis
Superstar
Don't forget that some Torontonians commute in the opposite directions, from home in Toronto to work in the 905.
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
salsa
Senior Member
Gardiner and DVP are owned by Toronto, therefore 905-ers should not be allowed to use them. That's what the 400 series highways are for. [/STUPID]
junctionist
Senior Member
Miller was the most vocal proponent of transit expansion to lead the city in decades. Putting transit at the top of the civic agenda is an important part of his legacy. I agree that it's too bad he didn't stick around for a 3rd term. He alienated a large part of his support base by the end with the garbage strike, but he could have still won the election and turned his reputation around. Transit City didn't pan out exactly as planned, but the province is moving ahead with the Crosstown, Finch West LRT and possibly Sheppard as they agreed back in his time.
Palma
Senior Member
well tolls are probably coming. And you are the one that is stupid. Must live in Vaughan or RichmondHill
GenerationW
Senior Member
That's just wishful thinking. Based on Giambrone's comment in 2009 that a DRL wouldn't even be considered until Transit City was finished (2018 at the earliest), it's far more plausible that Miller would have done no work on the DRL in a third term.
Miller did next to nothing to advance the DRL, and what little he did was forced on him by the Yonge EA.
Klieg
Logician
There's been a lot of development on Yonge north of Bantry recently. Grand Genesis, Grand Palace, Beverly Hills, Xpression condos, etc. are all either recently completed or currently under construction. In the area circled on your map, Miracle at Yonge was completed in 2013, SkyCity Phase I last year, and construction of SkyCity Phase II starts this month. There are apparently several other buildings slated to go up next to SkyCity, but I'm not sure when.
Not questioning your impressions of the area, just pointing out that most of the recent development has taken place just outside "Richmond Hill Centre" proper.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
minilude
Active Member
lol when tolls come I'm sure Torontonians won't be exempted from paying. This thread often uglily being hijacked into a battle of 416vs905 and that's the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
I cringe at the fact you're telling me to "get real" when it's abundantly clear to anyone paying attention that Mississauga has needed a subway for almost thirty years now. The Pop. density (per km²) in Mississauga Centre is 4,948.2. This is comparable to North York Centre's and Yonge-Eglinton's levels of density, which have subways.
You neglect the Dundas buses (1/1C, 101/101A): 18,027, meaning that daily transit usage from the current terminus of the subway into Mississauga across all routes is actually 47,249. And according to the Cordon Count (2014 report), 41,000 vehicles use Hurontario through Mississauga daily, a majority of these being between Eglitnon and the QEW - precisely where a Bloor-Danforth extension could alleviate pressure most. Dundas sees about 33,000 vehicles. All this is evidentiary to the fact that a BD West extension to Square One would meet and likely exceed expectations.
I never disputed that the subway should go to Cloverdale, it's the next logical goalpost. But Sherway Gardens has far more going for it already in the present than Dundas East between the 427 and Dixie ever will. Hard to justify serving this enormous area with just a single station at Wharton Way. Ergo, I'd sustain the bus service and have the subway rejoin the Dundas alignment west of Dixie.
So you envision 500,000 (half a million!) users through this area yet you still think a subway isn't justified? This stretch of Dundas, unlike east of Dixie, is already very dense and highly trafficked and there's still room for infill growth if warranted.
Wrong! Mississauga East-Cooksville has a population density of 3,582.1 per km². Mississauga Centre has 4,948.2 per km². But don't just take my word for it, a picture says a thousand words:
See, every area a stop would go in has the requisite density on-site to support it.
A Mississauga extension would perform no worse than the outer Danforth stations do today.
The subway and a BRT would only overlap over 3 stations, there's no reason we couldn't have both.
So the golf courses at York Mills and Don Mills must get a subway before built-up dense areas like Cooksville and Mississauga City Centre do in 75 years from now? Shops at Don Mills gets before the largest shopping centre in Ontario does? The second busiest transit hub in the GTA must do without a subway link when it's very feasible to build one? Like I said, our leaders must be asleep at the wheel to allow this inadequacy to happen. Bless their hearts, at least York Regional politicians seem to give a crap about the future sustainability of their cities.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Mississauga centre should get a subway - the extension of the ECLRT. This should be a grade-separated "subway" to Sq1.
The first step for the B-D is an extension to 427 (Honeydale). No matter what, there will be many buses coming on 427 and it makes no sense to have them clog city streets going to Kipling or Islington.
Just like SmartSpur appears to be the answer for STC, maybe what Sq1 really needs is a branch of RER.
The first step for the B-D is an extension to 427 (Honeydale). No matter what, there will be many buses coming on 427 and it makes no sense to have them clog city streets going to Kipling or Islington.
Just like SmartSpur appears to be the answer for STC, maybe what Sq1 really needs is a branch of RER.
drum118
Superstar
First off, how long do you think it will take to built and generate development for 200-500,000 people considering it taken 25 years for Mississauga to get to 715-741,000 when there was less than 200,000 when it was born?? If we talk about other areas with the same number how long for everything??
Mississauga was offer free RT like the SRT back in the early 80's that went from Kipling to Sq One and beyond and they turn it down.
The 30,000 is all the routes going to the subway and if you add up the ridership of 3, 20, 26, 76 and 109, not enough for a subway period. Even adding in 1's and 101, still not enough.
I have no idea that a straight line from Dixie & Dundas to Sq One came close to Cooksville and impossible to do.
The issue for a subway has been raised a number of times over the years and been shot down as to costly and lack of ridership.
Hurontario north at Dundas sees 1,000 riders per hour at peak time and Dundas sees 800. Great numbers to support a subway you think??
Both York Region and Mississauga need to increase the model split before thinking subway. I made a presentation to Mississauga council in December to increase funding for transit to go from the current 11% to 22% by 2020 and to 50% by 2045, considering the current plans call for 22% by 2045. It was meet with deaf ears.
As for your numbers for Cooksville and not going to check it, but too high considering it mostly single homes with some high rise on Hurontario. Come out to the Cooksville Vision Master Plan planning exercise on Monday night. I don't have to look at the photos since I have ridden the area by bike, driven it, walked it, ride the bus as well photograph it. I shop at Dundas and Hurontario.
Current ridership on Dundas only support an BRT, but I prefer to see an LRT that interline with the Hurontario New LRT. Going west of Hurontario doesn't require an BRT other than being interregional by Metrolinx. Oakville doesn't have density on Dundas to support local service, let alone BRT. It been in Oakville Master Transportation for over a decade.
TTC has only seen the subway going as far as Dixie Rd using CP ROW, which they can't use anymore. Taking the line to Dixie is worse than the extension to STC.
As for Don Mills, it has bus feeding that line and if the DRL every gets built to Sheppard, it will reduce the ridership on Yonge for a decade or 2, but the development on Young will replace the riders using the DRL plus more.
Subway Subway is for the car folks so they don't loose any traffic lanes as well not having to deal with transit in the first place.
The different between Mississauga and York, Mississauga is run like a business with very low debit while York spend widely to the point it has a $2B plus debit while Mississauga has $200 million.
By the way, why does Mississauga Transit runs short turn buses between Mavis Rd and Dixie and not to the subway??
crs1026
Superstar
Whoa....
Sherway is a stupid, stupid, stupid place to take a subway. It would benefit the mall owners, but no one else. You aren't going to pry the upscale fashionistas who use Sherway out of their Beemer SUV's, anyways. There is no parking for commuters and the bus connections into Mississauga don't help for anyone living north of Dundas. There are two GO routes, one slated for RER, for those living along the south Mississauga corridor.
Even Cloverdale is not desirable, because Miway bus routes fan out from Kipling/Islington. Yes, there is huge ridership crossing the Etobicoke-Mississauga border, but it's dispersed along several roads....Dundas, Bloor, Burnhamthorpe, Rathburn. No one routing serves all those riders well.
Why do we need a 'next logical goalpost' for a subway? What's with this mentality that we just keep pushing them longer and longer? That's how we get into this mess on Yonge. The right thing is to figure out where ridership tapers and provide a transfer to lower-capacity RT at that point. Steeles is the right point on Yonge. Dundas does not have the same volume of bus traffic that Yonge does, so Kipling is fine for Etobicoke.
What's needed on Dundas is LRT, which could be an extension of the 512 some day if TTC changes guage when the tracks wear out. It could end up going all the way to South Milton some day. Subway density won't happen for 30 years, if ever, so why be in a hurry. In that respect, the situation on North Yonge is very similar.
- Paul
drum118
Superstar
Subway to Honeydale should happen in 2005 and since then, but keeps getting shot down by the Commissioners. Even Ford wouldn't push it. TTC lack space at Kipling now and this interregional hub has no room to expand or support more buses that will be needed down the road. Honeydale/Cloverdale has always been the Gateway Hub under the Big Move plan, not Kipling.
In my December presentation to Mississauga council, I call for funding to cover the connection between the LRT and the Milton Line for Tram-Train service to/from Sq One to Union.
If you want to think big, you tunnel from the Milton Line to Sq One that will support DD cars and continue under the 403 and reconnect to the Milton Line. You could run different service in both direction from the Sq One Hub. This would mean you wouldn't service the Cooksville Station.
Doing a grade separation for the ECLRT going to Sq One would have to be the Transitway that will run in mix traffic with GO Transit service. Any other route is too costly for at least 20 years or more. Going underground on Eglinton is even worse. 2031 ridership from Renforth based on the 2004 EA numbers call for 25,000 at peak time, but it was found out after the EA process, it was system wide. Based on that number, you had DD buses coming every 20 seconds and that was pushing it. My recommendation was for LRT in place of buses, but this is a GO thing who was not willing to look at LRT for some of its routes.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
You're not getting the concept:
It's very feasible to have the subway serve both Cooksville and Square One. So Cooksville would have stops at Cliff Rd and at Hillcrest (Cooksville GO). Dundas-Hurontario is skipped, yes, but there would be a Hurontario LRT to pick up the slack.