Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

ShonTron said:
Post of the month.

Anything useful to say about the noise walls?
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Actually yes. I write this post sitting in my home which is less than 200 feet from a rail line which features noise walls as well as a berm. And you know what... IT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL! I mean this is the latest huge controversy in Weston, that Metrolinx wants to build some sound barrier walls? The community can't even decide what they want! One part of the community wants them to block out the trains that pass on the rail lines, and another part doesn't want them because they will be a 'visual blight' and 'scar the neighborhood'. So what is it Weston, are the walls a blight or a necessary part of living near a rail line?

Seems to me that this is just another issue raised by Weston to hamper improvements in the corridor.
 
How did they even decide on a stop in Weston? It makes the trip longer and there's no businesses or attractions of interest around there.
 
And it wasn't like electrifed trains are silent either - and besides, one would expect higher frequency service once the line has been electrified, increasing the need for sound barriers.

000:

A bone thrown to the rather loud neighbourhood organizers, perhaps?

W_H:

It's the neighbourhood that gave us Frances Nunziata. Nuff said.

AoD
 
I bet that if/when the corridor is electrified, the ''local community'' will complain about unsightly overhead lines! I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but hardly anymore ridiculous than this article. And after the recent hubub around the nearby nuclear facility you have to wonder about the density of NIMBYs here.
 
000 said:
How did they even decide on a stop in Weston? It makes the trip longer and there's no businesses or attractions of interest around there.
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Here is a brief history of the community opposition I wrote a while ago.....the bolded part explains the stop at Weston.

TOareaFan said:
My problem with the opposition from the Weston community has always been the moving target approach to this. It really has given me the impression that this is all just an attempt to block progress.

Initially they were not complaining that it was diesel...it was all about the "cutting their community in half" because 3 roads were not going to cross the tracks. Then when the compromise was reached (having two roads cross and the third becoming a pedestrian crossing) that argument lost its legs.

then it was all about how this did not serve their community....about how they were being asked to bear the brunt of this service (as if these trains do not pass through any other communities) and how, at least, the trains should serve them. So another compromise is reached by having the trains stop in/at Weston.....so that "argument" lost steam.

It was only then that the whole notion of how awful these diesel trains are and how this line should be electrified before service is introduced came up.

It leaves you wondering, really, what would happen if tomorrow somone wrote a cheque to have it electrified. The cyinic in me thinks there would be another blocking "cause" arising.
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Who knew they would find a new "cause" before electrification and the issue would be the attempts to mitigate the noise.
 
TOareaFan said:
Here is a brief history of the community opposition I wrote a while ago.....the bolded part explains the stop at Weston.
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I know why they did this, but I still think this was a rotten deal for Metrolinx. There are other ways to get NIMBYs to shut up then to give them a station that will hardly be used and only cut into the efficiency and viability of an express rail link. That stop alone will probably add 4 or 5 minutes to a one way trip.
 
Hipster Duck said:
I know why they did this, but I still think this was a rotten deal for Metrolinx. There are other ways to get NIMBYs to shut up then to give them a station that will hardly be used and only cut into the efficiency and viability of an express rail link. That stop alone will probably add 4 or 5 minutes to a one way trip.
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It could be made stop on demand. Put a button or something on the platform to request the train to stop, otherwise it's skipped.

Anyway, a year the line will be reevaluated and the 10 people who boarded at that stop will be deemed insufficient. There is a good chance that it will be shifted to Eglinton to tie into the cross-town.


I'm looking forward to the Bloor stop. At $20 + TTC fare I won't use it every trip (I seldome travel for business anymore) but I'll probably still take it 5 or so times a year, especially if I can get those cheap 7am flights without having to get up at 4am.
 
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Weston's stop is a waste of money as would be an Eglinton.

Who is going to spend minimum $20 to take a rail line to Pearson when they are already at Eglinton and Jane?. From that location a regular bus to Pearson along Eglinton would be just as fast without the pain in the ass of a transfer with all your luggage.

I happen to agree about people living beside existing corridors.

I have very limited empathy for people who decide to live near highways/airports/railways etc and then complain about the noise. If they didn't like it they shouldn't have moved there is my belief but this really is different.

Due to Toronto being nearly the only city on the planet with a diesel train to the airport and Georgetown about to have a huge increase in frequency then their concerns are valid. The noise would be a pain but they choose to live there so I say suck it up.
The pollution, however, is a different matter. In rush hour this corridor will have up to one diesel train rolling by every 4 minutes. Georgetown will become the world's busiest diesel corridor and the health concerns are real.

This is just GO and UP and doesn't include VIA or any potential diesel freight. That is a LOT of diesel pollution and I don't blame them for being mad. This is made even worse by the fact that the UP is completely useless to them due to it's ridiculous prices.........it's a rail connection but under no stretch of the imagination is it public transit.

There is such a thing as "reasonable accomodation" and I for one get very tired of NIMBYs but I draw the line when their concerns go from incomvience, unsightly, unattractive, stressful, house values, sense of community, too much noise etc into one that has real adverse health effects. Legitimate concerns about health is NOT NIMBYism and with this now becoming the busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet their concerns are valid.

If someone moves to an light industrial area then they know what they are getting but that doesn't mean they aren't right to protest when someone decides to build a add a pulp mill.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Weston's stop is a waste of money as would be an Eglinton.

Who is going to spend minimum $20 to take a rail line to Pearson when they are already at Eglinton and Jane?. From that location a regular bus to Pearson along Eglinton would be just as fast without the pain in the ass of a transfer with all your luggage.

I happen to agree about people living beside existing corridors.

I have very limited empathy for people who decide to live near highways/airports/railways etc and then complain about the noise. If they didn't like it they shouldn't have moved there is my belief but this really is different.

Due to Toronto being nearly the only city on the planet with a diesel train to the airport and Georgetown about to have a huge increase in frequency then their concerns are valid. The noise would be a pain but they choose to live there so I say suck it up.
The pollution, however, is a different matter. In rush hour this corridor will have up to one diesel train rolling by every 4 minutes. Georgetown will become the world's busiest diesel corridor and the health concerns are real.

This is just GO and UP and doesn't include VIA or any potential diesel freight. That is a LOT of diesel pollution and I don't blame them for being mad. This is made even worse by the fact that the UP is completely useless to them due to it's ridiculous prices.........it's a rail connection but under no stretch of the imagination is it public transit.

There is such a thing as "reasonable accomodation" and I for one get very tired of NIMBYs but I draw the line when their concerns go from incomvience, unsightly, unattractive, stressful, house values, sense of community, too much noise etc into one that has real adverse health effects. Legitimate concerns about health is NOT NIMBYism and with this now becoming the busiest diesel rail corridor on the planet their concerns are valid.

If someone moves to an light industrial area then they know what they are getting but that doesn't mean they aren't right to protest when someone decides to build a add a pulp mill.
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I was gonna reply with the fact that the only way that this ever gets to the sort of traffic that would make it reach those frequencies is if GO reached its goal of every day, all day, two way service on all its lines (which it has no immediate plans for) and did so before electrification happened......i was gonna do that then realized the entire conversation took place around page 153!
 
The noise walls could be a disaster if they go in along the Railpath - part of the attraction is how it snakes between the railway and the industrial and residential areas. Around Mount Dennis, where 60-80 year old houses hug the west side of the tracks some sort of noise wall is likely needed with corridor expansion, flawed air-rail link or not.

To appease the "NIMBYs" (at the start, there were many fundamental issues that needed to be raised and fought), there needed to be a firm goal for frequent, affordable, regional service. We're not getting that. The Weston UPE stop is a half-assed sop to this demand.

Some of the current NIMBY complaints are irritating, for sure. I could see some who are pushing for electrification whining when substations and overhead catenary have to go in.

The noise walls should not necessarily be opposed, but should be planned well, with reasoned community input to maximise attractiveness and sunlight issues.

Mount Dennis is one of the lowest-income areas of the city, it's a little rich to tell people to move.
 
^ The health concerns are probably real.

UPE might cause a net reduction in pollution (due to avoided taxi and bus trips), but will increase the local pollution. By how much, is another question.
 
I'm not aware of any other city that runs a diesel train to it's airport. I'm sure there maybe a couple which is why I said NEARLY the only city to do so.

This will be one of the busiest rail corridors in the world. Canada is unusual for having nearlyt all it's commuter rail services provided by diesel trains. Electrification is the norm in most of the world and certainly in the industrialized world with the exception of the US where services ussually have far lower frequencies. Remember, the UP link will have a train going by every 8 minutes all day long and that does not include GO, VIA, or any freight trains.

As far as diesel not being polluting, I just don't know where you are getting that. Pollution is bad for you which is one of the many reasons why major world cities don't run or run very few diesel trains. Pollution is a real health concern particularily along corridors with large diesel locomotives. For those who think diesel isn't an issue I can only assume that you would have no problem with Metrolinx saving the catenary costs by running DMU units under Eglinton instead of electric LRT.
 
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