Toronto Time and Space Condos | 101.8m | 29s | Pemberton | Wallman Architects

Hariri Pontarini are great architects. The client's demands for density and budget are probably very hard to work with, however.
 
cruzin4u said:
Looks pretty boring having 3 towers with the same heights - couldn't they add some variation to the heights? The previous proposal looked more interesting, albeit it was still out of context with the neighbourhood. Pemberton overpays for the land and now shoves this crappola down our throats.
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Addressing the heights only; while all three towers are proposed at 34 storeys, the one on Front is 9.55 metres taller than the two to the south, or the equivalent of three storeys higher. This is the result of the Front tower being built over the three double-height retail floors and the higher initial grade at street level.

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SP!RE said:
Hariri Pontarini are great architects. The client's demands for density and budget are probably very hard to work with, however.
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HPA can do really nice work, but they aren't above producing developer schlock either. It's good as schlock goes, but schlock nonetheless. Vu on Adelaide & Jarvis for example. (Although I do like the townhouse component of Vu along George St.)
 
I think VU was largely the work of Young+Wright if I recall correctly. But yeah, HPA was involved. I still think HPA deserves credit for creating generally really high-calibre stuff. Working for developers is tough and incredibly frustrating, so I am a bit sympathetic in the case of a firm like HPA.
 
This proposal in its current form is actually not terribly planned from a ground floor point of view. I like the townhouses around the southern end of the block and the large retail format on Front street might work well here. I can live with it. There are pedestrian walkways through the development as well (they should be two stories high, but I can't quite tell from the renderings).

The podium does not balance with the street at all. It needs stepbacks. And I'd rather have two skinny towers than three chunky ones of aggravatingly boring design. Although, if they are going to be dreadful spandrel, maybe I don't want them tall.
 
Who knows these might be solid renderings of the actual project. But I can't see the respected architectural firm hariri Pontarini putting out something like that rendering and saying that's the best we got.
 
These are by no means marketing renderings at this point. It's far too early to spend a lot of money creating realistic renderings as much will change. Look upon these as little more than massing studies with a concept for glazing and cladding with question marks regarding the eventual details still abounding.

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It's a tricky area to build for as so much of it was built at once along the Esplanade, and it could be difficult to come up with something pleasing that doesn't fall into the trap of being badly-handled modern or more-of-the-same contextual.

I think this in all the preliminary pics seen so far falls squarely under 'badly handled modern'. Who said it was Soviet looking is right. As far as this rendering is correct, the base is monotonous and heavy, and the towers are stolid thickset bores.

Someone needs to really rethink the ground level plan. Not just a bit - but a radical rethink that uses fractions of the space inventively. Not this block-stuffing lump.
The towers as pictured are terrible, and the glut of unrelieved grey-blue glass just adds despair to frustration.

So, the towers need rethinking too, ones that will rise well from a more open, deft and inviting base. These blue-grey boxes are becoming a curse on this town. So many possibilities, willfully ignored and worse, held up as superior. I definitely expect more from Hariri Pontarini, who can do first-class work.
 
While I do not have any inside info on concept plans for colour or cladding—the gray elevations tell us very little so far as I've mentioned above—there is no doubt that this proposal will be the subject of community consultation. When we find out the date and time for that, I would encourage anyone with an interest in how this development turns out to go to the consultation and make your voice heard. There are always people at the consultations crying too tall, too dense, etc., but I believe it is especially worth going if you can be more articulate.

Don't like the massing and would prefer taller, more slender towers? Tell them that. Tired of typical window wall glazing and million-mullion spandrel cladding? Tell them you like what Hariri Pontarini did with One Park Place at Regent Park (for example), and that you know they can pull off something equally impressive here. Want fine grain retail at grade? Impress the developers with your attention to detail, and let them know they need to pay that level of attention. Etc. etc. Use what you know from UrbanToronto to make the city a better place!

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I would hate to see more grey spandrel come to St. Lawrence. The Berczy was bad enough, we don't need any more. Actually, there is a lot about this development to not like, from the massing, to how it meets the street. It just doesn't fit into the neighbourhood. It looks more like Liberty Village along King Street.
 
^+1

Pemberton way overpaid for this site, they are going to lose money big time on this one. You simply cannot get these levels of density out of the site, and there is no way the OMB will approve it. Pemberton better be ready to lose some big bucks.

Also, 3 levels of retail? is there really that much space needed here? I'm all for it, I'm just amazed to see it. Condo developers seem to finally have gotten the concept of retail in their developments, most new proposals seem to have fairly solid retail spaces in them today unlike a decade ago.
 
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It looks even worse, and the podium still feels as dated as ever. Pemberton's desire to break even is evident here, as even Hariri Pontarini can't seem to make it work.
 
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