Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Megaton327 said:
I did not read anything to the effect of there being no free transfers. The sole mention of fares in the document is "To offset some of the operating costs of the subway, the TTC would receive all fare revenues from customers using the subway service."
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There's also the comment that "The new Operations and Maintenance Agreement is in line with existing agreements between York Region and the TTC". One could interpret that to mean that the current agreement says that there are no free transfers north and south of Steeles, and it's similar now. Hopefully it also means that that York Region which was previously paying $7 million a year or TTC to operate north of Steeles continues to do so ...

The real answer is we just don't know yet. I'm sure answers will come.
 
nfitz said:
That seems tight. Sheppard opened in November 22, 2002. I recall being in the old cinema at Bayview Village a while before it opened - late summer I think, and and you could hear/feel the trains running.

When did Sheppard start? I can find a February 2001 article, saying that trains would start running in November 2001, ahead of a Julyish 2002 opening. That's 7-8 months of testing. (and obviously things slipped by 4 months or so.

Oh wait - May 7, 2002 Toronto Star article titled 'All aboard: Sheppard subway gets ready to roll' notes that:

TTC engineers have been running empty trains through the gleaming new line for more than a month now. .... "There are probably more than 10,000 individual things that have to be tested before the first revenue train comes through here" says chief project manager Andy Bertolo. "And we don't just need to make sure they work, we need to make sure they work after some wear and tear of use, so we have to do things again and again. ... What passengers will see when Sheppard does open—probably in November or December now ..."​

So that's about 7 months of trial running on Sheppard. How do they only need a month for Spadina? Something doesn't feel right about this.

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Hmm, perhaps I've misunderstood - is that running the trains in regular service mode ... and the running of trains started on March 28 when they energized the track ... yeah, I guess that must be it.
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They only need to run the trains to a revenue schedule for about a month or so, possibly even less. In the interim, they were running trains somewhat more frequently to test other things, like the signals, crossovers, ventilation systems, etc. And to that end, they started running trains on their own on the extension in early April, which is about 8 months before the line is projected to be open.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I'm surprised that YRT isn't coming up with its own numbers for the 105 Dufferin North or 165 Weston Road North routes that it will be operating in December. (Same with route 24/224 on Victoria Park.) It can make things confusing for new riders or people navigating via online directions.
 
raptor said:
Maybe it's express from Sheppard to Steeles to avoid double fare?
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Don't think so as nearly all will be coming/going to/from the subway or transferring to TTC buses anyway. There's no common destinations along Dufferin itself for the double fare to be an issue. And the subway extension makes no difference in any case as Sheppard West station is already there
 
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This whole fare thing is so absurd.
It seems like the sort of thing that should take, what, a week to negotiate? It'2 2 municipalities and 2 municipalities with a long working relationship and a provincial agency to mediate.
That it would take months seems insane.
That this line is 2 years behind schedule and they still don't have an agreement seems mind-blowing to me. There's a finite number of possibilities, isn't there? It's 2017, Presto is online...I just don't get it.

Figure out what is best for riders, write up a one-page deal, sign it.

I'm starting to think Jared Kushner's going to get his Mid-East peace deal before this thing is resolved.
A train crossing a border?! Whoever heard of such a thing?!
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
This whole fare thing is so absurd.
It seems like the sort of thing that should take, what, a week to negotiate? It'2 2 municipalities and 2 municipalities with a long working relationship and a provincial agency to mediate.
That it would take months seems insane.
That this line is 2 years behind schedule and they still don't have an agreement seems mind-blowing to me. There's a finite number of possibilities, isn't there? It's 2017, Presto is online...I just don't get it.

Figure out what is best for riders, write up a one-page deal, sign it.

I'm starting to think Jared Kushner's going to get his Mid-East peace deal before this thing is resolved.
A train crossing a border?! Whoever heard of such a thing?!
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The Problem is Metrolinx has only ever agreed to meet with the TTC board only once and the TTC is extending the invite to meet again but Metrolinx is taking their time because "they have anew CEO"
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
The Problem is Metrolinx has only ever agreed to meet with the TTC board only once and the TTC is extending the invite to meet again but Metrolinx is taking their time because "they have anew CEO"
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They started building this line, after years of planning in 2008.

You're telling me in all that time Metrolinx has met with the TTC once and the CEO change a couple of months ago is an excuse? That doesn't even make sense - staff should be communicating all the time and, at such time as there's an agreement, it can come to the board.
And what about the other 3,650-odd days?
Why is it even on Metrolinx at all? I understand they have to be at the table because of Presto and, hey, they are the regional transit agency! But it should effectively be a simple, bilateral agreement.

The exception would be if Metrolinx wants this to be a pilot, of sorts, for fare integration. But my larger point still stands: there are only so many possibilities.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
They started building this line, after years of planning in 2008.

You're telling me in all that time Metrolinx has met with the TTC once and the CEO change a couple of months ago is an excuse? That doesn't even make sense - staff should be communicating all the time and, at such time as there's an agreement, it can come to the board.
And what about the other 3,650-odd days?
Why is it even on Metrolinx at all? I understand they have to be at the table because of Presto and, hey, they are the regional transit agency! But it should effectively be a simple, bilateral agreement.

The exception would be if Metrolinx wants this to be a pilot, of sorts, for fare integration. But my larger point still stands: there are only so many possibilities.
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That's what got said at the last TTC board meeting in April they met about a year ago when they held a joint meeting and haven't had one since. One of the counselors brought up scheduling more of them because he had herd from sombay that the company crossinx was looking to operate the crosstown line even though he knew that it was already established that the TTC would be responsible for it.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
They started building this line, after years of planning in 2008.

You're telling me in all that time Metrolinx has met with the TTC once and the CEO change a couple of months ago is an excuse? That doesn't even make sense - staff should be communicating all the time and, at such time as there's an agreement, it can come to the board.
And what about the other 3,650-odd days?
Why is it even on Metrolinx at all? I understand they have to be at the table because of Presto and, hey, they are the regional transit agency! But it should effectively be a simple, bilateral agreement.

The exception would be if Metrolinx wants this to be a pilot, of sorts, for fare integration. But my larger point still stands: there are only so many possibilities.
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Remember that thousands of customers of Metrolinx's largest subsidiary - GO Transit - are also affected by the outcome of the York U-Vaughan fare agreement on the subway. Metrolinx does have a big role here, and not because of the Presto card.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
This whole fare thing is so absurd.
It seems like the sort of thing that should take, what, a week to negotiate? It'2 2 municipalities and 2 municipalities with a long working relationship and a provincial agency to mediate.
That it would take months seems insane.
Click to expand...

Any excuses offered around non-integrated fares are bullshit. I don't have any insight as to what is holding it up, but I strongly suspect it is the TTC/City of Toronto and Metrolinx having a spat over money. Remember, the TTC is the only municipal transit system in the GTHA without a GO co-fare. Metrolinx subsidizes other local transit agencies for their co-fare offerings, but according to chatter I've seen in other places, Metrolinx said it wouldn't do the same with the TTC so the City said 'ok well piss off.' I suspect that had a role in a lack of co-fare between YRT/viva and the TTC.

How co-fares would work between municipal systems is the subject of Metrolinx's Fare Intergration Strategy. It's GTHA-wide, so any efforts to get Toronto on board with anything probably got re-directed there, slowing it all down. It's a shame, it's held up just because of money, missing the point that this is for the regional betterment. But blaming it on a lack of meetings and a new CEO is just the TTC and Metrolinx offering cheap pieces of meat for the public and media barking questions.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Any excuses offered around non-integrated fares are bullshit. I don't have any insight as to what is holding it up, but I strongly suspect it is the TTC/City of Toronto and Metrolinx having a spat over money. Remember, the TTC is the only municipal transit system in the GTHA without a GO co-fare. Metrolinx subsidizes other local transit agencies for their co-fare offerings, but according to chatter I've seen in other places, Metrolinx said it wouldn't do the same with the TTC so the City said 'ok well piss off.' I suspect that had a role in a lack of co-fare between YRT/viva and the TTC.

How co-fares would work between municipal systems is the subject of Metrolinx's Fare Intergration Strategy. It's GTHA-wide, so any efforts to get Toronto on board with anything probably got re-directed there, slowing it all down. It's a shame, it's held up just because of money, missing the point that this is for the regional betterment. But blaming it on a lack of meetings and a new CEO is just the TTC and Metrolinx offering cheap pieces of meat for the public and media barking questions.
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I think you are hitting the Nail on the head the TTC and City of Toronto don'rt want to share fares with the other regions because we are the biggest of them all and everyone is coming in to use our system. Look at the current structure of the system if you take a bus from outside of Toronto you have to get off outside of the TTC station on the street or at a separate terminal. Plis co fare with other networks only benefit the people that come from outside of Toronto and not anyone that never leaves Toronto by public Transit.
 
Brampton Transit announced today that they're going to run 501/501A as is, with minor adjustments around VMC Station. I figure that they wanted to serve their customers the best they could, without dual terminal points, and without subjecting their customers to a potential double fare to board the subway to the campus:

Hey, riders. Remember our Public Information Centres we held in March? Thanks for all your feedback – we have an update to share with you on the 501/501A Züm Queen!

When the Spadina Subway opens later this year, we’ll continue to operate 501/501A Züm Queen as it is today. There *will* be some minor routing changes on the 501 around the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. However – the 501 and 501A will continue service York University. There will also be a number of extra trips added during the peak periods starting in September.

We hope you’re as excited about this news as we are!
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ShonTron said:
Brampton Transit announced today that they're going to run 501/501A as is, with minor adjustments around VMC Station. I figure that they wanted to serve their customers the best they could, without dual terminal points, and without subjecting their customers to a potential double fare to board the subway to the campus:
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This is such a shame. At this rate, there will not be a substantial reduction in the number of buses on the York U campus...one of the points of the subway station was to stop having dozens of diesel buses per hour making noise and spewing exhaust into the air, and to make the campus more pedestrian friendly. Sad to see that dream gone.
 
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